Is it possible to run bad for two months? (low Content

[BeerMoney]

Every time I sit at a table, I win like 1 or 2 of my first 60 or 70 hands. I'm not overly tight, and I'm not a big folder. It just seems next to impossible to win right now. Its hard to play solid poker when you never win a hand. I think my game selection has been reasonable, and I am even paying closer attention. How could I go from winning fairly consistently, to losing almost every time I sit down?

I have 0 confidence right now.

Beer.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
Every time I sit at a table, I win like 1 or 2 of my first 60 or 70 hands. I'm not overly tight, and I'm not a big folder. It just seems next to impossible to win right now. Its hard to play solid poker when you never win a hand. I think my game selection has been reasonable, and I am even paying closer attention. How could I go from winning fairly consistently, to losing almost every time I sit down?

I have 0 confidence right now.

Beer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've gone through stretches like this, unfortunately there is nothing comforting to say, it's just variance. Sometimes you have rushes where every draw comes in, people make second best hands again and again, etc. Then there is the opposite, which sucks.

The only thing that got me in a winning frame of mind was refocusing on chasing down bonuses. If you know that except in purely horrible cases that you'll be guaranteed a profit, it's very easy to keep playing, and your goal isn't results oriented so you won't be too dissapointed. As long as I don't need to worry about the money I can play well and put in the hours.

[mscags]

Try not to look at your bad run in terms of X days, but rather in terms of X hands. I've had 15K breakeven stretches in holdem and it takes me a good 2-3 weeks to play that many hands and that is 4 tabling 6MAX. If you are just playing 1-2 tables of stud it will take you FOREVER to play the same equivalent of hands. 10-15K breakeven or bad stretches happen, it just sucks when it seems like ETERNITY. As long as you keep playing solid poker it will all come out alright.

[grb137]

[ QUOTE ]
Every time I sit at a table, I win like 1 or 2 of my first 60 or 70 hands. I'm not overly tight, and I'm not a big folder. It just seems next to impossible to win right now. Its hard to play solid poker when you never win a hand. I think my game selection has been reasonable, and I am even paying closer attention. How could I go from winning fairly consistently, to losing almost every time I sit down?

I have 0 confidence right now.

Beer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Beer - to answer your question, yes, its possible. However, I suggest you post more hands so we can tell you whether or not you're playing as solid as you think. For example, if you really are capping with 3 flushes, maybe you should back off the aggression.

Otherwise, ride it out. Hang in there.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

Also, the easiest way to get out of a bad run is to work on finding even better games. Sometimes you can find a decent game thats slightly loose and lag, and usually thats good enough. If I'm running bad I want at least 1 or 2 super donators there, and I'm really only there to gamble it up with them. You don't want a swingy action game when youre mildly tilty and on a bad run. You want to find some super loose/passive players and fire your guns at them. I think the game most people look for when stuck is usually the worst one to be playing at the time.

I don't know about the rest of the posters on this forum, but almost all my big wins comes from isolating the weakest player and letting him try to draw out on me. My big wins don't come from outplaying people who are only semi-competent.

As you can see this is basically the same advice as before. Get a bigger overlay, but keep your game the same if you're not seeing obvious flaws.

[DeadMoneyOC]

Wait until month four...then it really becomes fun.

No serouisly. When I first started playing poker I went on the biggest 6 month long mega heater ever. Since I had just started playing poker I thought I was the best poker player ever.

Ever since 05 started I have been losing on a fairly consistant basis. Up until this summer I still thought I was awesome at poker and thought my bad luck was just that...bad luck. Then this summer I realized many things about poker in general and how to handle rough periods. First I would suggest you drop down it the lowest stakes on the whole freaking web site. Ok maybe not the .50 game but if you usually play 5-10(right?) I would suggest playing 2-4. You BR will thank me and you will gain confidence because beating those stakes is like beating your little brother playing basketball. I am 99% you have much better bankroll management that me and also better steam control but regaining your confidence is probably most important right now. On tip that I got from cardplayer is also make sure you book small wins during your cold streaks. Winning 5BB in 30minutes isnt anything amazing but I think its better than losing. I would also suggest you tighten up A LOT!!! When I was on my welcome to poker mega rush I played like a frekaing maniac! That does no work when you are running bad. You need to play not and basically never blufff. Ever. You will called when you are running bad. Dont play as much either. Save you energy for when you are running good again.

Edit: Listen to Alex adivce also. That was some good stuff.

[beta1607]

Beer - Could be running bad could be playing bad, but I would guess it is a cycle of one leading to the other.

Post some hands and if you feel like you are getting stressed about poker go spend some quality time with your wife and a movie instead of playing, it will def. be +EV /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[MrBlueNose]

Drop down to 1/2 or 2/4 6 max for a few weeks. Your confidence will jump sky high /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[BeerMoney]

That's a good idea.

Thanks to all those that replied.

I've decided my river play needs some work.

All good things come to he who waits. good luck.

[lstream]

Are you still multi-tabling? If so, I wonder if it could help to drop down to a single table for a bit and focus real hard on what all table opponents are doing.

[peritonlogon]

when I run bad, I change up the games I play and quantities of them a lot. Play Holdem for a time. One of the strange things about the human mind is pattern recognition. Most patterns one recognizes relating to poker are false patterns. When you switch to a different game you'll notice your mind being clearer and your decisions better. This is because a large number of your false impressions relating to the other game have faded away, whether they be of the "I can't win" sort or the "that paired door card MUST be just a pair and a 3 flush," or those mysterious, semi-concious groups of thoughts taking place in a hand that are hard to even realize. This is a great time to learn a game you haven't played, or get good at one you haven't mastered. Then come back to stud.

Also, I would suggest reading Mike Caro's section of SS2, its very good mental habbit reinforcement.

[SA125]

Tell the truth. Do you ever lose?

Everyone and their mother has "break-even" streches of 15K-30K hands. Do you ever lose over those stretches as poster is saying he is. If not, it's not the same.

I've been a loser over 35K hands at a time and shake my head at the ridiculousness of it all. Suckouts, cold decks and just plain donating.

[Prelude008]

For me, it's been even longer (more like 4 months). I play Hold Em and it seems that every session is a loser from 3-6, 2-4, 1-2 and .5/1. I did manage a few wins live, but that doesn't make up for losing practically every single time. For the most part I've avoided tilt and "played my best" but I still lose. I am rereading SSH and working on my game - but the one/few cards that can beat me "always" showing up is a major factor. It got so bad that I just switched games to Stud/8 (and the reason I'm am in this forum). I use to play Stud/8 live many years ago and play pretty well. Not wanting to jinx myself, but I've won two days in a row. I agree with peritonlogon...A new game is mentally refreshing. I hope my upward steak contines. I really do like Stud/8. Hope it turns around for you.

[Michael Emery]

You could just find a new hobby, seriously. You take poker wayyyy too stressful when you run bad. PLus you only one or two table, that means its gonna take a long time for it all to even out.

Mike Emery

[MRBAA]

If you are playing well, you are winning every time you play. Whether you make money or not in a particular session is irrelevant. If you are making +EV decisions the great majority of the time, you are getting your money in with the best of it and you will win over time. It's normal and to be expected that you will have streaks of losing and streaks of winning. I played 15 hours of 2-4 online stud while on vacation in August (an hour a day). For my first 14 hours, I was just about dead even. The last hour, on the last day, I was up 75 BB. I was relaxed and enjoying the poker every day, and played well every day. I didn't do a darn thing different on the last day, except I played a lot of hands with a semi-maniac at my table and hit my hand at least a half-dozen times in big pots.

[Jeffage]

I agree with your philosophy about making money every time you play. But you also don't (IIRC) play at limits that make any difference to you financially - win, lose or draw. I know I play for serious money and losing stings (even though I'm properly bankrolled for the limits I play). In either case, running bad can be emotionally painful if the money matters (ie. you depend on it as income, even if it's not your sole source).

Jeff

[southerndog]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are playing well, you are winning every time you play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really, does PartyPoker take this theoretical money and put it in your account?


[ QUOTE ]

I played 15 hours of 2-4 online stud while on vacation in August (an hour a day). For my first 14 hours, I was just about dead even. The last hour, on the last day, I was up 75 BB. I was relaxed and enjoying the poker every day, and played well every day. I didn't do a darn thing different on the last day, except I played a lot of hands with a semi-maniac at my table and hit my hand at least a half-dozen times in big pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you average 5 BB's/hour over 15 hours, and this is your bad run? This is probably the most ridiculous post I've ever seen on here. People on here are playing limits 5-10 times the limit you're playing, and you're talking about a 14 hour break even streak. OP's talking about 2 months of losing after 12 months of winning.

Those of us who play a lot understand the frustration and concern over a bad streak. Not a 14 hour break even streak.

[MRBAA]

Southern, I wasn't presenting this as my bad streak. Just as a recent example of randomness that really struck me. I was sitting in the living room of our vacation house every morning playing solid stud and losing money or getting up even. Then one hour of outrageous luck hits me over the head and I win huge. I've had plenty of bad runs, but the key is not to let them affect your play.

Jeff, I'm sure playing for a living (or for money that matters) is a whole different ball game. But the folks I know who do this pretty much all say it's important to insulate yourself from the ups and downs. I sat at an online 3-6 table awhile back with a friend who's multi-tabling for a living and he took a savage beating, but just kept playing solid poker. He left down most of his buy in, and when I talked to him live and mentioned the session he couldn't even recall it -- just shrugged and said he doesn't pay much attention to results during any particular session. If I were playing for a living, the first thing I'd do is set aside a year's living expenses in hopes of never touching them. That way, I'd be mentally free to play well regardless of results.

If you read Roy Cooke or Brunson or just about any of the pros who have done it for awhile, they all talk about the need to not be results oriented.

The other day I was stuck $300 in a 4-8 hold'em game. I picked up K6s in the BB, it came to me raised with five opponents and I made the call. Just like I would have if I'd been up $300.

The other day playing 1/2 n/l I was stuck $200 and put my last $80 all in preflop with QQ -- and got shown AA by one opponent. (The third player had 22 and beat us both when he flopped a set).

Like every player, I can't control when I win or lose. But I can control how I play -- and that's what I focus on.

[mscags]

Yes I have. 10K hand stretches when you are something like -.5BB suck, but breakeven stretches happen more with me

[peritonlogon]

A year's worth of living expenses is a lot of money to set aside before going to work. And even if you have that, a couple of months of losing or breaking even at you JOB still stings. I took a $1200 hit when I was four tabling 2/4 Holdem earlier this year, and I found myself unable to play well for a time after losing over a third of my BR. And I do regular meditation and read stoic philosophy as well as every other type of mental training I could fit in between breaking even after that. I really think that after a really bad run what happens to you and how you play goes past the merely psychological and starts entering the neurological. Everyone here can shrug off a hand full of bad beats or a week long losing streak, but when things go on longer perception of the world starts to change despite your best efforts. You don't even realize when you start missing raises or value bets. It's similar to how IQ tests can swing drasticly within one person (sometimes close to 15 points or 1 standard deviation either way(that's average to genius)) depending on very complex psychological and environmental factors. That is why I suggested learning a new game, vacations don't always cut it (a bender probably will Beer).

[Roland]

Excellent post.
I’m just recovering from a 4-month break-even streak and then losing 5k in 3 weeks (a 5-month losing streak I guess), and I very much agree that learning a new game will do you a lot of good. I started to play SNGs recently and it really helped me (just booked a nice $600 win today /images/graemlins/smile.gif ). I guess it’s just that when your losing at stud every time you play you’re not having fun anymore, whereas playing a new game is usually a lot of fun. Simple as that.

[Wu36]

Most of you have probably read this, but its worth posting again.
That which we shall not speak of (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1765434&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&fpart=all&vc=1)