Stars - AQ in SB, lvl 2.

[Iamafish]

Im not interested in hearing, dont call PF, lets not talk about that. Anything else would be great.

PokerStars Game #2552977874: Tournament #12442486, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30)
Table '12442486 1' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: 8link (1455 in chips)
Seat 2: bigal03 (1835 in chips)
Seat 3: Celer (1350 in chips)
Seat 4: HERO (1850 in chips)
Seat 5: scotty-newin (1985 in chips)
Seat 6: NemoStars22 (1010 in chips)
Seat 7: garyh333 (1355 in chips)
Seat 8: smeagal20 (1355 in chips)
Seat 9: tejas240 (1305 in chips)
HERO: posts small blind 15
scotty-newin: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/heart.gif]
NemoStars22: folds
garyh333: folds
smeagal20: folds
tejas240: calls 30
8link: folds
bigal03: raises 60 to 90
Celer: folds
HERO: calls 75
scotty-newin: folds
tejas240: folds
*** FLOP *** [2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/spade.gif]
HERO: bets 150
bigal03: raises 150 to 300
HERO: calls 150
*** TURN *** [2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/spade.gif] [7 /images/graemlins/club.gif]
HERO: checks
bigal03: bets 450
HERO: ?

I'll tell you what he had after a few responses.

[el_dusto]

with no other reads, i think he wants you to call, and keeps throwing out about 1/2-pot-size bets to wring lots of chips out of you after he hits his AT-AK.

i want to say, "of course i would have raised his flop bet," but i can't convince myself that i would. i wouldn't call it, though.... seems like a pretty standard raise-or-fold situation to me.

[lastchance]

Well, I hate being OOP, so don't call preflop, :P.

On the flop, betting out is really, really bad. I mean, really, what are you thinking? I like the Irie line, check-calling down, unless he checks the turn, where you can throw out a river bet.

Don't play this hand aggressively, with no draws to protect yourself from, and it's very hard to milk OOP.

Once you get your lousy turn spot, I call down.

[Iamafish]

I don't understand, why's it bad to bet the flop?

Well, I thought he was holding a pocket pair, didn't hit a set. The raise on the turn brought me to think he really has that pair, and now AK, or Ax. I bet becuase I wanted information. But what is betting wrong?

[unreal_nh]

fold pf

[pokerlaw]

yeah, i dont like betting the flop here. villain's PF raise is showing strength, so check to him and see what he does. by this turn, I would fold and save some chips. since you know what he had, I assume you called...KK?

[Iamafish]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, i dont like betting the flop here. villain's PF raise is showing strength, so check to him and see what he does. by this turn, I would fold and save some chips. since you know what he had, I assume you called...KK?

[/ QUOTE ]

You think he has KK but you'd fold anyway? Nice....I guess.

Like I said, Im not gonna go into why I called PF or anything bout that.

Him having JJ+, KT+, AK, AJ will ofcourse have him bet this flop if I check, making me fold with no information.

I folded becuase I thought he had AK and it would go all-in, I didn't want that.

I can't really be sure what he had, becuase I didn't see, but he said he had JJ. I wouldn't doubt it.

[lastchance]

Information is worthless here, because all it does is make your decision harder, and lose you chips. Unless you can very surely fold or 3-bet to a flop raise, which would be dumb, IMHO, there's absolutely no reason to bet.

A check = chips, because Villain is going to be contuination betting all those hands that missed, and you're just going to let him hang himself.

With a bet, your opponent gets chips from better hands, can make you laydown on the turn, and is spewing chips in every sense of the word.

[Iamafish]

I read both your first post and your edit, the edits better. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

So your saying I should be calling him all the way down? The reason I don't like that is becucase, like I said I would have no information. And by the river, I'd be all-in anyway. Here, I happily folded.

I think this might be more of a style situation here, no?

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
I read both your first post and your edit, the edits better. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

So your saying I should be calling him all the way down? The reason I don't like that is becucase, like I said I would have no information. And by the river, I'd be all-in anyway. Here, I happily folded.

I think this might be more of a style situation here, no?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you want to not lose your chips here, and gain some, there are certainly better ways to go about it.

Betting out on that flop into the PFR just sucks. It sucks a lot. It's really, really bad.

What you can do is check-call flop and bet turn. If you get raised, you're done with it. If you get called on the turn, you can check-fold river, maybe call a few weak bets. If you get a check behind on the flop, you can safely get to the river, maybe collecting a few bets along the way.

I think that line is far better than your lead out on the flop, which pretty much lets your opponent do anything he wants with a weaker hand or a better one.

My lines are better. Check the flop.

[Iamafish]

Sounds good.

[Roland32]

regardless of how u found yourself in that situation on the turn. Once your there you gotta fold there. You have to respect the preflop raise, flop raise and turn bet.