Harv72b
09-11-2005, 04:21 AM
It seems like a lot of responses to HH posts lately have included a "please include" or "don't include" or "do you have..." comment in them. Since I got an "A" in high school English class (once), I thought I'd take a stab at laying down a basic guideline for hand histories. If this isn't needed, ignore it. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Without further ado...
Subject Line - This should be something that in some way describes the hand that you're posting. This could be something along the lines of "Flopped Trips Gets Raised on Turn" or "AA from the BB", etc. If you can somehow make it kind of clever, this is better. If nobody else gets it when you think you're being clever, just stick with something straightforward. Try to avoid titles which give away the results of the hand, like "Where Should I Have Folded?", or "Pocket Aces Meet the Unbeatable Luckbox".
If your post has little strategy content (for example, a royal flush hand that you mainly want to show off but which might have some points worth discussing in it), add "(LC)" at the end of the subject line. If your post has no real poker content (i.e., "look what this donk called me with!"), you should probably first consider whether anyone else would be interested in the hand, and then add "(NC)" to your subject. It is also acceptable to add what brand of little/no content the hand is, specifically: "(Royal Flush)", "(Bragging Post)", etc.
Body
At the beginning of your main body, you have two options: either write a brief introductory paragraph, or jump straight into your reads. An introductory paragraph might have a little about you & your poker experience (especially if you're a new poster to this forum), how your session was going, or anything else pertinent, clever, or otherwise interesting.
Reads are important!!!!. If you don't have a read on any of your opponents in the hand, say so! The hands that you're posting usually revolve around decisions which have a relatively narrow equity margin, and as such, the type(s) of player(s) you're up against matters a lot! At a minimum, your read should include whether the opponent (or villain) was tight or loose, and passive or aggressive. If you want to be a bit more detailed, you can include raw Poker Tracker stats. The accepted format is: VP$IP/PFR/(postflop only)AF, or 32/7/0.8 for example. You should also include how many hands your read is based on, or at least a ballpark figure ("about 50 hands" or "over 200 hands"). How many hands you have on your opponent is crucial in determining how strong your read actually is. If you observed the villain(s) making a specific play which might affect the decision you're questioning, include that information as well (i.e., "I have seen villain semibluff raise the turn before with a flush draw"). EDIT to add: You should also include something about your own table image in the reads section, if you think this would affect the hand. For example, if you've had to fold to several turn raises when you were betting an unimproved AK or an underpair/second pair, this could cause your opponents to play more aggressively against you (or to see you as a maniac). On the other hand, if you have never shown down anything less than top pair after betting the river, this matters if your question revolves around a river raise. If you just joined the table and therefore have no table image, say so.
Once you've gotten the reads out of the way, you can move on to the hand history itself. If you have Poker Tracker (and you should have Poker Tracker), you can copy a hand history from there, plug it into BisonBison's Hand Converter (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter/), and simply paste the converted hand into your post. Two things are important to note when using this converter: first, you need to select "2+2 Forums" in the Format Box, and second, you should check the box marked "Side-pot Details" (this will show when an opponent goes all in at some point in the hand; if you do not check this box and someone went all in, that action will be missing from your post). When done, this will make your hand easy to read and follow for those trying to help you analyze it. An example:
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)
Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.
Flop: (12.33 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Button calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.
Turn: (8.66 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 folds, Button calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds.
River: (11.66 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.
Final Pot: 11.66 BB
<font color="#009B00">Main Pot: 11.66 BB, between MP2, Button and UTG+1.</font> > <font color="#FFFFFF">Pot won by MP2 (11.66 BB).</font>
Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG+1 has Kd 6d (high card, king).
MP2 has 5h 4h (two pair, fives and fours).
Button has Ad 5d (one pair, fives).
Outcome: MP2 wins 11.66 BB. </font>
Note that this hand history includes the Results. Unless you are posting a hand for sheer bragging/opponents' stupidity purposes, you should not include results in the initial post!!! You did not have that information when you played the hand, and giving that additional information to those reviewing your hand will affect their recommendations.
If your hand comes from a B&M session, or you can't get the hand history, you can just type it in following a similar format. If you type it in yourself, it is crucial that you include information on the pot size at each street in your post--this (obviously) has a huge effect on how you should play your hand, and since you are the one asking for help, it stands to reason that you should not expect those you want help from to take the time to add it all up themselves.
If your question revolves around one specific point in the hand, you should cut the action off at that point. For example, if you want to know whether you should call a turn raise, cut off the hand history when it gets to the point where you are deciding whether or not to call that turn raise; again, leaving the river action in your post gives those of us reading it more information than you had after the turn raise. If we see that you called the turn raise, and the villain then checked through after a blank river card, it often becomes fairly obvious that you made the correct decision in calling the raise. An example:
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls.
Flop: (4.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.
Turn: (3.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero...?
Finally, remember that the advice contained in the responses you get is meant as constructive criticism, even if it isn't always worded that way. For the most part, the people on this forum know what they're talking about--if eight different people tell you that you should have folded on the flop or you should have raised preflop, there's a good likelihood that they're right. You posted the hand hoping for help on your game, to make you a better player. Don't take it personally if one or more posters tell you that you made mistakes in the hand; if you disagree or don't understand why, then by all means say so and explain your reasoning. But getting argumentative & defensive will not help you become a better poker player, and will not get you more advice in the future.
I'm not trying to be the hand history police, and to be honest I couldn't care less whether or not everyone follows these guidelines when they post one here. But using this format, or one similar to it, will most definitely get you more and better responses. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Without further ado...
Subject Line - This should be something that in some way describes the hand that you're posting. This could be something along the lines of "Flopped Trips Gets Raised on Turn" or "AA from the BB", etc. If you can somehow make it kind of clever, this is better. If nobody else gets it when you think you're being clever, just stick with something straightforward. Try to avoid titles which give away the results of the hand, like "Where Should I Have Folded?", or "Pocket Aces Meet the Unbeatable Luckbox".
If your post has little strategy content (for example, a royal flush hand that you mainly want to show off but which might have some points worth discussing in it), add "(LC)" at the end of the subject line. If your post has no real poker content (i.e., "look what this donk called me with!"), you should probably first consider whether anyone else would be interested in the hand, and then add "(NC)" to your subject. It is also acceptable to add what brand of little/no content the hand is, specifically: "(Royal Flush)", "(Bragging Post)", etc.
Body
At the beginning of your main body, you have two options: either write a brief introductory paragraph, or jump straight into your reads. An introductory paragraph might have a little about you & your poker experience (especially if you're a new poster to this forum), how your session was going, or anything else pertinent, clever, or otherwise interesting.
Reads are important!!!!. If you don't have a read on any of your opponents in the hand, say so! The hands that you're posting usually revolve around decisions which have a relatively narrow equity margin, and as such, the type(s) of player(s) you're up against matters a lot! At a minimum, your read should include whether the opponent (or villain) was tight or loose, and passive or aggressive. If you want to be a bit more detailed, you can include raw Poker Tracker stats. The accepted format is: VP$IP/PFR/(postflop only)AF, or 32/7/0.8 for example. You should also include how many hands your read is based on, or at least a ballpark figure ("about 50 hands" or "over 200 hands"). How many hands you have on your opponent is crucial in determining how strong your read actually is. If you observed the villain(s) making a specific play which might affect the decision you're questioning, include that information as well (i.e., "I have seen villain semibluff raise the turn before with a flush draw"). EDIT to add: You should also include something about your own table image in the reads section, if you think this would affect the hand. For example, if you've had to fold to several turn raises when you were betting an unimproved AK or an underpair/second pair, this could cause your opponents to play more aggressively against you (or to see you as a maniac). On the other hand, if you have never shown down anything less than top pair after betting the river, this matters if your question revolves around a river raise. If you just joined the table and therefore have no table image, say so.
Once you've gotten the reads out of the way, you can move on to the hand history itself. If you have Poker Tracker (and you should have Poker Tracker), you can copy a hand history from there, plug it into BisonBison's Hand Converter (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter/), and simply paste the converted hand into your post. Two things are important to note when using this converter: first, you need to select "2+2 Forums" in the Format Box, and second, you should check the box marked "Side-pot Details" (this will show when an opponent goes all in at some point in the hand; if you do not check this box and someone went all in, that action will be missing from your post). When done, this will make your hand easy to read and follow for those trying to help you analyze it. An example:
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)
Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.
Flop: (12.33 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Button calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.
Turn: (8.66 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 folds, Button calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds.
River: (11.66 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.
Final Pot: 11.66 BB
<font color="#009B00">Main Pot: 11.66 BB, between MP2, Button and UTG+1.</font> > <font color="#FFFFFF">Pot won by MP2 (11.66 BB).</font>
Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG+1 has Kd 6d (high card, king).
MP2 has 5h 4h (two pair, fives and fours).
Button has Ad 5d (one pair, fives).
Outcome: MP2 wins 11.66 BB. </font>
Note that this hand history includes the Results. Unless you are posting a hand for sheer bragging/opponents' stupidity purposes, you should not include results in the initial post!!! You did not have that information when you played the hand, and giving that additional information to those reviewing your hand will affect their recommendations.
If your hand comes from a B&M session, or you can't get the hand history, you can just type it in following a similar format. If you type it in yourself, it is crucial that you include information on the pot size at each street in your post--this (obviously) has a huge effect on how you should play your hand, and since you are the one asking for help, it stands to reason that you should not expect those you want help from to take the time to add it all up themselves.
If your question revolves around one specific point in the hand, you should cut the action off at that point. For example, if you want to know whether you should call a turn raise, cut off the hand history when it gets to the point where you are deciding whether or not to call that turn raise; again, leaving the river action in your post gives those of us reading it more information than you had after the turn raise. If we see that you called the turn raise, and the villain then checked through after a blank river card, it often becomes fairly obvious that you made the correct decision in calling the raise. An example:
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls.
Flop: (4.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.
Turn: (3.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero...?
Finally, remember that the advice contained in the responses you get is meant as constructive criticism, even if it isn't always worded that way. For the most part, the people on this forum know what they're talking about--if eight different people tell you that you should have folded on the flop or you should have raised preflop, there's a good likelihood that they're right. You posted the hand hoping for help on your game, to make you a better player. Don't take it personally if one or more posters tell you that you made mistakes in the hand; if you disagree or don't understand why, then by all means say so and explain your reasoning. But getting argumentative & defensive will not help you become a better poker player, and will not get you more advice in the future.
I'm not trying to be the hand history police, and to be honest I couldn't care less whether or not everyone follows these guidelines when they post one here. But using this format, or one similar to it, will most definitely get you more and better responses. /images/graemlins/smile.gif