Frustration - Tired of the LPP idiot crowd

[bdohaney]

Hey everyone, I just wanted to post and vent a little bit. What are you supposed to do against tables full of Loose Passive Passive players in tournaments, where for each blind level all of the people slow things down to the point that you MIGHT see 2 full rounds per level of the blinds? I have learned already to pack my things and go home if they are playing rebuys (I am NOT going to pay anyone to suck out on me repeatedly, as they FREQUENTLY do.) So here is where I am sitting: Can't play conservatively, as there is not enough hands to see positive expectation waiting for a hand sure to beat their likely nothing. Can't bluff, as they WILL call anything with ANYTHING. How can you seriously see a positive EV out of all of this?

Taking a breath = +EV.

Take solace in the fact that when you do get a monster (or even TPTK most of the time against these players) that you'll get paid off ridiculously well.

[JonPKibble]

[ QUOTE ]
Can't bluff, as they WILL call anything with ANYTHING. How can you seriously see a positive EV out of all of this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't bluff. Value bet relentlessly.

[TomHimself]

this is probaly a extremely easy game to beat if its a LPP players.dont be scared to rebuy

[RiverDood]

If it's an NL tournament -- but everyone is playing as if it were a small-stakes limit game -- then adjust your hand-selection standards accordingly.

Limp in with Ax suited. Limp in with K8+ suited. Limp in with mid/high connectors. Play stuff that works well in a multiway pot. Get out cheap if the flop doesn't give you 2 pair, a flush draw or an OESD. Stay and hope to get paid a fortune if it does.

Expect to make more money with JTs than with TT. Accept the fact that you just can't isolate opponents when you've got a vulnerable made hand.

You're still going to be playing tighter than most of the bozos at the table, because you won't be playing 93s, or hanging on with 44 on a board full of overcards, etc. But in a game where drawing hands take down most of the big pots, you'll get your share.

Obviously if you can double through someone with AA in the first five orbits, you can play your regular game just fine and not have to scrounge for pots with hands you'd normally fold. But if you've got good post-flop discipline, this gives you a much better shot at accumulating chips every hour.

[Lottery Larry]

"How can you seriously see a positive EV out of all of this"

You're kidding, right?

[redmonk]

I love this kind of game. If I have top pair and get raised by a LPP, I will assume they have me beat. If they are just calling or checking, I'm making solid bets, but not risking too much on one hand. In a recent rebuy, I had a guy hit his runner/runner flush draw and take half my chips on the first hand, but I got them back three fold. I did hit a couple of flops, which helps, considering he couldn't be bluffed, but that information was easy to obtain and remember.

[theben]

someobdy who calls everything is the easiest player to beat in the world if LPP!

[MrBrightside]

the thing of it is, you have to figure out who will lay it down and who won't. Most new players won't, even if they appear good. For instance, I brought a guy from work to a 18 person NL event, he played ok (had played some poker, but no tourneys). Get's to the final table and I watch him call off all his chips on a straight draw. His response afterwards when I asked him about the hand "well, I thought I was outclassed by those players and needed to take a chance to get a big stack" (actually, I didn't think this was THAT bad a strategy for him. And at least he was thinking strategically).

When someone brings a new player I assume they are LPP (or tight passive) and don't try to bluff them. Period.


This is hard if you are used to playing online, with quick blinds where agression in NL tourneys is rewarded, big time. Our tourney, you start with 100 (or maybe more) BB, so it's deep stacked. I got at a table with mostly new players (and one that wasn't, but I knew to be a calling station). First adjustment? My standard opening raise with a big hand went from 3x to 4x the BB. next, If I did it with a hand like AK (or a hand like 10s and two overcards are on the board) and got more than one caller, I don't even bother with the continuation bet. I check fold.

As someone said earlier, 10Js in a game like this (especially earlier in the tourney) is probably a better hand than 10 10.

It seems weird to play this way. It seems "wrong", but it's just adjusting to the game the way it is played.

[EMcWilliams]

PArt of being a good home game player is changing gears from what is considered to be textbook proper play. Because of the overall lack of hands played, focus on the short term. Play hands that hit flops (by that I mean play SC and Suited Paint). Even play unsuited connectors in late position. Play ultra LAGgy. Focus less on the long term, more abbout the short term.

[bdohaney]

Wow. Thank you all. You've all given me a lot of good advice to work with here. Personally, I think the biggest part is the part of "getting used to playing online", usually in MTTs, no less. So, I will definitely work on those things in my home game (and others in the area), no bluffing (until I stop being able to get any action), loosen my starting requirements, stop trying to cont. bet hands like AK, when the flop misses, relax and be more patient.

[TomHimself]

[ QUOTE ]
PArt of being a good home game player is changing gears from what is considered to be textbook proper play. Because of the overall lack of hands played, focus on the short term. Play hands that hit flops (by that I mean play SC and Suited Paint). Even play unsuited connectors in late position. Play ultra LAGgy. Focus less on the long term, more abbout the short term.

[/ QUOTE ]why focus on short term?
theres a thing called variance you know

[smoore]

JTs is a better hand early than TT because of the draws it can generate. TT is still a better hand late.

Value bet the holy hell out of these donks. Value bet small even with second pair on the river if you don't detect two pair or better. They will call. Employ the blocking bet OOP here to keep top pair from betting larger.

Like others have said, don't bluff. Play ABC poker.

Watch your draws. Call bets when you don't seem to have pot odds, as long as your implied odds (money you will win should you hit your hand) are correct.

If there's a rebuy, go ahead and get allin with TPGK *and* an OESD or a nut/second nut flush draw. Yes, you will bust sometimes but you'll also get paid off when it hits or holds up.

Straights mess these guys up, don't forget to discount the two outs if you're on a straight and someone is on a flush draw.

these are the esiest tpe of players to play. You have to remember your not oing to win every tournament. You also will not make the cash every tournament. You goal if this is a weekly or regular tourney is to make moneyso if win 1000 this week in a 100$ buy and you go 5 more times before you get in the money and you win say 600 for 2nd this timeyou have won 1600 and paid 600 to enter the game so you up a 1000$. I too play in a few games games like this you just have to keep your head up and keep playing your best. For gods sake don't ever try to bluff them and make bets that they will call easily. Als I suggest watching when they raise usualy when these types raise they have a very premium hand.

Buffro
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