KK Hand Advice

[Pvt Pyle]

$20+2 Multi-table NLHE internet tourney T1000 to start.


You've built your stack to 2000. Your table has six people (This is the format at UB). Still early, blinds 15, 30. (about 100 people left in the tourny). One other guy has about the same stack, others 1000 or less.


You're dealt KK in the BB. All five limp. You raise to 150. The big stack calls.


Flop comes 2, 4, 7, rainbow.


Pot is $600. You bet...$600. He calls.


Turn is the A of clubs (now two clubs on the table, you have the K of clubs).


Your move is?????

[ohkanada]

The only obvious draw on the flop is 65. So the question is what is the big stack cold calling your flop bet with. He would likely play a set the same way by just calling. Would he call with A7s and has now hit his 2nd pair? How about a medium overpair (88-TT) or would have he raised pre-flop? Would he have called with 2 overcards?

So the pot has 1800 and you have 1250 left.

Seems there are 3 options. Betting all-in. Checking and calling. Checking and folding.

If you feel you are likely ahead then I might go for the checking and calling. A free card is probably not the worst thing in the world. He may hit his 2 outer if he has a pair. But with only 1 straight and a backdoor flush draw, I don't think it is terrible. Betting all-in may be okay but you may only get better hands to call you.

Ken Poklitar

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

To my mind you really only have 2 choices: Go all-in or check-fold. All-in you might get Ax that's not 2-pair to fold. I doubt a smaller overpair to yours will call with the ace on the board. All depends on your read.

[ohkanada]

"All-in you might get Ax that's not 2-pair to fold"

I am still waiting for that to happen on-line. Many on-line players have never heard that you are allowed to fold top pair.

Ken Poklitar

[Pvt Pyle]

Thanks guys. In the event I pushed all in and got beaten by a set of fours. My post game analysis was this: the ONLY hand that could have reasonably called my flop bet was the set. As a result, the correct play was check and fold. I think you have to assume your opponent to be rational. After all, if we assume our opponents are irrational, then no read is any good at all.

Anyone disagree?

[Sly_Grin]

I play tons of online tournaments and as soon as the 600 was called I would have said "uh oh" and checked on the turn for sure. Your opponent is in good shape stack-wise and has no reason to risk a bunch of chips at that stage of tournament. If he comes back with any big bet I'm done with it. I believe in the Sklansky theory of not risking my stack in marginal situations cuz there are better times on the way.

[ohkanada]

"As a result, the correct play was check and fold."

Sure when your opponent flops a set like he did I agree. If you check/fold everytime your flop bet gets called you are not going to do very well in NL tournies.

"I think you have to assume your opponent to be rational."

Assumptions should be made on past plays. Not everyone is rational. And as I said in my original posts I think there were other hands that he could have called you with other than a set.

My point is simply don't be results oriented. I could have guessed he had a set simply because you posted the hand. What you need to try to do is think based on past plays what type of hands he could have had and make your judgement on that. Don't become weak-tight post flop.

Ken Poklitar

[iblucky4u2]

I am not really a NL player, but it would seem to me that you made a mistake with your pre-flop raise of only 150 (size of the pot). With the relative size of the stacks and the pot being 150, why not try to take it down right there? Would the big stack call a larger bet (450 or more) with his 4's?

[Pvt Pyle]

This is the part I've been twisting about. 150 was 5x the bb. A material preflop bet here. But you're right, based on that players stack size, a bit more might have made sense. However, there are some players, who, having called the bb initially, with a pair, will simply not be put off their hands.

[gunbuster]

After he calls the $600, I may have slowed down a little on the turn. Maybe I'm too weak here, but when people start cold-calling large bets with no obvious draw (don't think he'd play 56 here), I start getting that uneasy feeling.

Maybe we could consider this from the opponents point of view. He has a big stack, decides he can gamble on the BB. Given your raise, he figures you for a premium hand, and the rag flop pretty much lets him know he's got the best of you -- so he might let you do the betting for him (which he knows you'll do given your pre-flop raise). Turn is an Ace, which would only scare him if he thought you had AA, but odds are more likely you could have AK, KK, QQ.

I don't think you should check the turn though, as you'll encourage a bet from someone who thinks you're afraid of the Ace. So I'd probably launch another bet into the pot. If he cold calls or raises, I will probably think I'm beaten here.

I don't like all-in here, as you'll only get called by hands that will beat you.