Myth Busters: Marijuana aka Pot aka Mary Jane aka etc.

[Xelent]

I have always been one to question "conventional wisdom" as it can get you in trouble if you follow it too often. This is an example and I would like if anyone knew the correct answers to my questions.

-How long do you have to stop smoking before it will not show up in a standard company urine test? What about a more advanced one that takes a hair sample?

-Does it matter what kind of pot you smoked or how long/ how much you have been smoking?

For example, if a pot head that smokes every day for a year and stops for a drug test, does he have to wait longer than someone who smoked for lets say a month? A week? Just one day?

I'd google it. Sounds like someone is facing a drug test in the near future.
Shooby

[tylerdurden]

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I have always been one to question "conventional wisdom" as it can get you in trouble if you follow it too often.

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Not following it often enough can also get you into trouble.

[Xelent]

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I have always been one to question "conventional wisdom" as it can get you in trouble if you follow it too often.

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Not following it often enough can also get you into trouble.

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Please elaborate.

[evil_twin]

Looks like it's up to 2 weeks in blood, up to 90 days in hair, and up to 12 weeks in urine if you're a habitual user. The times reduce if you're just a casual user.

Sourced from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_test). Good Wiki.

[benkahuna]

Never trust rumors about illicit drugs. The lack of research by the government (or even allowing of research) and sensationalist commercials by non-scientific morons like Partnership for a Drug Free America and the overadjustment by drug subculture has resulted in a very large amount of misinformation. This information comes in overzealous warnings and inadequte concerns. It's shameful because people are not allowed to make informed decisions and genuine health concerns (from the few drugs that cause physical health problems) are overlooked. Even Dr. Drew has his BS. He's solid as far as I've seen except for LSD which he claims causes MDMA type neurotoxicty despite there being no research to indicate that's the case at all. (and additionally recent problems surfacing with the MDMA research as well).

Try to find a source backed by peer-reviewed, double-blind, placebo-controlled research. Look for citations from reputable scientific journals.

Marijuana is quite fat soluble so it has a tendency to linger in the body as fat soluble materials are not rapidly circulated out of the body. They should almost not call it drug testing and just call it marijuana testing.

Marijuana detection is dose and frequency of use dependent. There are a variety of tests with differing levels of sensitivity. The results cited from wiki, based on my loose recollection of reading a few sources on the matter, sounds like the upper limit for a habitual user.

People have experienced mixed results with a variety of counter-detection methods, including diuretics. Your best bet is to make friends with the tester or produce a clean sample (remember they typically test the temperature as well). I'm normally not an advocate for defrauding people, but in this case it's pretty much discrimination. While people may forget things with a greater frequency and be less motivated. Also, beware chocolate as it has a number of cannibinoids in it as well. It could cause false positives (and could also be a good excuse if you fail a test). I don't know, but it seems unlikely that marijuana detection assays would be specific enough to delta-9-tetrahydrocannibinol (THC) that other cannibinoids wouldn't be detected. Maybe I should take that back. GC/MS (gas chromatography, mass spectrometry is pretty damn specific).

Many people perform well under the influence of pot. NASA doesn't drug test because they have a "unique workforce." And Kary Mullis, a habitual pot user and advocate for its use, came up with PCR, one of the most useful techniques for work in genetics ever. Users are probably around you and working compentently under the influence and you don't even know it.

[Xelent]

Good stuff. Didn't the government actually test it in the 60's, and then the Nixon administration threw out the results or something similar to that?

[benkahuna]

It wouldn't surprise me terribly, but the actual dumping of results of a government study sounds odd. There was a lot of experimentation during the 60s (both in labs and outdoors and at planetariums, etc. :P ) and I think the legality of these studies was seriously hampered in the 70s because there was almost no molecular neurobiological research until a couple studies in the 90s and maybe a few in the 80s. They also rewrote the entire drug code from scratch in 1970. It's an incredible pain to do studies on a Schedule 1 drug because you have to get approval from the DEA, FDA, and a host of other agencies and it becomes this big, ugly political monster.

[FlFishOn]

" I'm normally not an advocate for defrauding people, but in this case it's pretty much discrimination. "

In the USA we allow private employers to discriminate. Not in allt he ways I believe to be fair game but at least in regards to drug use, alcohol and tobacco.

Grow up and quit smoking dope or get a job on your own, perhaps growing or dealing.

[benkahuna]

I'm aware it's legal. But, I disagree with the policy on ethical grounds.

I don't smoke. I have asthma and it's bad for me. THC functions for a few hours as a bronchodilator, but the smoke functions for about a week as a bronchoconstrictor.

Arm yourself with information: NORML's info on drug testing (http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6296)

[prana]

- it depends on certain factors, how often you smoke, how much water you drink, etc. so it can take quite some time if you are constantly dehydrated and not CONTINUOUSLY flushing your body.

-actually it does matter what kind of pot you smoke. Lower quality "shwag" lasts longer in the body. It has more of the cannibinoids sp? that get you "stoned" and not "high". Higher quality marijuana has a better chance of leaving your system faster. I had montyly tests on probabion a few years ago. If you are really interested in smoking and passing these tests with a few days eat 2 GNC "cleansing formula" pills twice a day. I take these anyway as they really help clear the body of toxins and make me feel much healthier. On top of this you have to be very diligent about water intake. Quit smoking 3 or 4 days before your test and start drinking ALOT of water. On the day of your test drink as much water as you possibly can. Also take a B vitamin pill to turn your urine yellow. I think it's B6, maybe B2 it's been a few years but you can easily look this up. Piss before you go in for your test as you should have drank so much water that you will be bursting by the time you actually do the deed. This got me through 18 months probation, actually about 15 because I tried those other test pure things they sell at head shops and failed twice. I also tried not to smoke alot. I had friends do this method and quit only 2 days before, I wasn't that brave though.

[BluffTHIS!]

If any of you are high when you play poker online, and if you play for any meaningful stakes, then you are suckers doomed to go bust. Same if you get drunk and play.

[Zygote]

wanna bet?

I play professionally and i smoke using a vaporizer consuming several grams every day. I'm stoned for 90% of my sessions and i have 230,000hands of winning poker. BTW, 125,000 of those are at stakes above 5/10. I hope you will reconsider your claim.

[BluffTHIS!]

No. Although possibly your statistics are outliers compared to other users. I've played with a lot of drunks and stoners over the years in b&m and home games. I've seen it make very good players into losers. As I said in another thread on this in the pscyh forum a while back, I have only known two winning players who regularly got high. I believe the only reason they didn't do worse is that they wouldn't get high until late at night when they knew the session wouldn't last much longer, and they didn't ever start out playing high.

Also as I said in that thread, by your assertion it logically follows that you think you can drive around high without ill effects.

Hi Zygote,
What concerns me most about marijuana smoking is all the tar and oil that ends up deposited in my lungs. You mentioned a vaporizor. What is this? Is it an improvement over a standard water bong?

[benkahuna]

Your fundamentalist assumption that marijuana and alcohol necessarily impairs performance in all things, including poker, has no basis in fact or experimental studies.

Your categorization of some people as "drunks and stoners" is totally subjective.

Your limited experience is not sufficient data upon which to base your claims for all people. Additionally, personal observations are subject to bias and selective observation.

You even provide exceptions to your rule, but you STILL stick by it and make some little caveat about why the exceptions could occur.

Given the dependence of decision-making in poker and the influence of mood on decision-making, I'm rather surprised you'd assume no mind or mood altering substance could help people when constantly put in the stressful position of making difficult decisions.

Some people drive just fine when they're high, or even better because the frequently lower speeds and greater caution they use counteracts the other issues with the drug. In other words, they overcompensate compared to their normal driving that they take for granted.

[prana]

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If any of you are high when you play poker online, and if you play for any meaningful stakes, then you are suckers doomed to go bust. Same if you get drunk and play.

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Drunk I can see, but I also am a winning player and I highly disagree with your statement.

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I have only known two winning players who regularly got high. I believe the only reason they didn't do worse is that they wouldn't get high until late at night when they knew the session wouldn't last much longer, and they didn't ever start out playing high.

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This makes it sound like you again are comparing this to alcohol as if they haven't smoked "alot" and in smoking "alot" they will be more unable to think critically like someone who starts out drinking and keeps it up throughout the whole session/tourney etc. There are huge differences here. Trust me I'm doing just fine and start every session with a ritualistic blow of the dro.

[quote I believe the only reason they didn't do worse

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worse than winning????

[prana]

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Hi Zygote,
What concerns me most about marijuana smoking is all the tar and oil that ends up deposited in my lungs. You mentioned a vaporizor. What is this? Is it an improvement over a standard water bong?

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Or you could eat it and negate all tar, oil and lung issues altogether. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

But a vaporizer is the best alternative to that.

[prana]

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Also as I said in that thread, by your assertion it logically follows that you think you can drive around high without ill effects.

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Right out of high school not knowing what degree to pursue I worked transportation jobs including parts running, ice truck driving requiring a Class B license and driving a truck for a charity picking up donations. All I did during all of these jobs was listen to music and get high. I may not speak for all but I am a very defensive driver and with over 5 years of transportation jobs working 5 days a week or more I never had one accident (many avoided by seeing the road and seeing people running red lights, cutting off, etc.) although I have been rear ended before once while not on the job.

I would much rather have people smoking marijuana on our roads than driving drunk or doing meth as MANY of our nations truckers do all day long on our nations highways because it keeps them awake(delusionally awake) and exits the system in a very short time.

[Zygote]

Why Cannabis Vaporization?

Vaporization is a technique for avoiding irritating respiratory toxins in marijuana smoke by heating cannabis to a temperature where the psychoactive ingredients evaporate without causing combustion.

Laboratory studies by California NRML (http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/jcantgieringervapor.pdf) and MAPS have found that vaporizers can efficiently deliver cannabinoids while eliminating or drastically reducing other smoke toxins.



If you are going to get one you must invest for the higher priced ones or you might as well not bother. I have the one they used in the study and its called "the Volcano". IMO, this one performs the best by far and is well worth the money. If you end up being interested, i'm pretty sure ebay is the best place to find them at a reasnoble price.

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NASA doesn't drug test because they have a "unique workforce."

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Awesome

I don't smoke marijuana (ok maybe like a couple of times ever) but it's good to know not everyone will believe hype. Sure, the hype may end up being right, but don't believe it just cause they said it.

[benkahuna]

I love the phrase "don't believe the hype." Thanks for the reminder. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[cwsiggy]

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If any of you are high when you play poker online, and if you play for any meaningful stakes, then you are suckers doomed to go bust. Same if you get drunk and play.

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I'm pretty sure Gank who simply is one of the best online tourney players will disagree with this.

Hey thanks a lot zygote,
eating the stuff just doesn't do it for me. I'm going to take your advise and get a volcano.

[ThinkQuick]

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-actually it does matter what kind of pot you smoke. Lower quality "shwag" lasts longer in the body. It has more of the cannibinoids sp? that get you "stoned" and not "high". Higher quality marijuana has a better chance of leaving your system faster.

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This is the stuff you should watch out for - internet advice with no source and no science. In fact it dosen't even make sense. Marijuana 'quality' is directly related to its % delta-9-THC, the most potent cannabinoid in pot.

One thing people have hit on that i'd reiterate is that marijuana is not immediately destroyed or excreted like some drugs, but it is stored in fat, and therefore the more you smoke/eat/vaporize (all the same), the more gets stored and the longer it takes to leave your system (by seeping out into blood and then being filtered into urine).

Also, on the topic of driving, playing poker high - I do agree with prana that I'd prefer to have high people than drunk people, since marijuana actually decreases risk taking behaviour while alcohol increases it. Don't know which you need for your poker style tho.

[xniNja]

I'll take that bet too.

I'm a winning pothead over 200K hands.

[prana]

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-actually it does matter what kind of pot you smoke. Lower quality "shwag" lasts longer in the body. It has more of the cannibinoids sp? that get you "stoned" and not "high". Higher quality marijuana has a better chance of leaving your system faster.

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This is the stuff you should watch out for - internet advice with no source and no science. In fact it dosen't even make sense. Marijuana 'quality' is directly related to its % delta-9-THC, the most potent cannabinoid in pot.



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you're exactly right but you're still missing the point that there are other cannabinoids than delta-9-thc. These are more abundant in lower quality marijuana while having lower content of delta-9-thc. I didn't know I had to source every bit of information I passed along. I did this research over 10 years ago and am sure it is available on the internet. If I am REALLY bored I may look around but frankly I don't care if you believe me or not so...............

When I got my first prop job in 2000 in a CA casino, I asked my new boss if I could have a few weeks to clear the drugs from my system before taking his manditory drug test. He said OK. Three weeks later, I passed the piss test and have been stoned on the job ever since. In 5 years, I've probably only had six losing months. I've had no losing months since playing exclusively on the internet.

[prana]

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-actually it does matter what kind of pot you smoke. Lower quality "shwag" lasts longer in the body. It has more of the cannibinoids sp? that get you "stoned" and not "high". Higher quality marijuana has a better chance of leaving your system faster.

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This is the stuff you should watch out for - internet advice with no source and no science. In fact it dosen't even make sense. Marijuana 'quality' is directly related to its % delta-9-THC, the most potent cannabinoid in pot.


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Not the best "source" refering to drug tests but still states my point, plus i have class in the a.m. so i am going to bed. It should be known though that drug tests test for ALL cannibinoids, not just delta-9-thc.

Here ya go
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THC (tetra-hydro-cannibol) is one of over 400 cannibols present in the cannabis plant and is responsible for the 'high' associated with smoking cannabis.

It is present in all cannabis plants, male and female but in varying quantities. Canabis with a low THC content will have a weak effect. The other cannibols present will be responsible for a heavy, sleepy stoned effect.

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from: Link (http://cannabisheaven.co.uk/thc.html)

[Xelent]

We should do a field study with some Vegas locals /images/graemlins/smile.gif I'll get a 2+2 game going at the Wynn with a couple of smokers I know. Anyone interested?

[prana]

i will be there for vegoose on the halloween weekend but don't live anywhere near there,

[purnell]

I suggest NORML's website, already linked in this thread.

Any company or individual who requires that I submit to the humiliation of a drug test does not get the benefit of my service. Period.

[purnell]

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If any of you are high when you play poker online, and if you play for any meaningful stakes, then you are suckers doomed to go bust. Same if you get drunk and play.

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I disagree. High, as in high on THC, is not the same as high, as in drunk.

Alcohol greatly increases the risk of tilt, while marijuana all but eliminates it.

Both drugs increase the likelihood of errors in one's play. Alcohol causes (very predictable) increased aggression and confrontational behavior, which can cost alot of money. Marijuana increases the likelihood of random (unpredictable) errors and reduces aggression. Both have a negative impact on one's earn, unless one is very susceptible to tilt, in which case marijuana may actually increase one's earn.

[TorpedoBreath]

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i will be there for vegoose on the halloween weekend but don't live anywhere near there,

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I just learned of vegoose from friends of my girlfriend who were heading down. After looking at the lineup I thought if I were to go I don't think I'd end up playing any poker. I'd probably be feeding the volcano and looking for Lesh.

[benkahuna]

I disagree with you about the consistency of alcohol's effects. Whereas some people have the response you indicate, others do not. There are sleepy drunks, horny drunks, friendly drunks, happy drunks, angry drunks, chatty drunks, etc. I have a much lower tendency to get angry or confrontational when I'm drinking. And I know many others do as well.

As for THC, some people get obnoxious and maybe a bit self-absorbed but I haven't seen angry. It's not all mellow and smooth. That's more of an anxiolytic thing (benzodiazapines, barbiturates, etc.). THC has anxiolytic effects, but it doesn't seem to be as pure as an anxiolytic as the other drug group I mentioned.

[unlucky513]

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I have always been one to question "conventional wisdom" as it can get you in trouble if you follow it too often. This is an example and I would like if anyone knew the correct answers to my questions.

-How long do you have to stop smoking before it will not show up in a standard company urine test? What about a more advanced one that takes a hair sample?

-Does it matter what kind of pot you smoked or how long/ how much you have been smoking?

For example, if a pot head that smokes every day for a year and stops for a drug test, does he have to wait longer than someone who smoked for lets say a month? A week? Just one day?

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it depends on how much you smoke. the more you smoke, the longer you have to wait. someone posted about drinking water, that doesn't help. if you're a heavy smoker, i'd stop about a week before the test, and drink creatine and take a vitamin B pill a couple hours before the test.

if you hardly ever smoke, as in once a month or so, pot will leave your system in 4 or 5 days.

as for hair tests, i'm not sure. my friend failed a hair test and he quit smoking about a month before his test, he also bought the shampoo. i believe hair tests go 90 days back, however if you smoke one or 2 times in the past 90 days you can pass a hair test.

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I've played with a lot of drunks and stoners over the years in b&m and home games.

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Do you have evidence that these drunks and stoners were good players otherwise? Most B&M drunks are just sh!tty poker players who want to gamble.