Bashing Heads With Chip Leader

[pokerbo]

This is a $200 Sit & Go(10 seater Live)

When play gets down to four handed I'm 2nd in chip stacks.

Me 3500
Big Stack 7255
Med Stack 2610
Small Stack 1635

Blinds are 100/200

Big Stack is in the Big Blind and I'm on the Button with JJ.

Big Stack has been playing aggressive but not wreckless. I decide if I'm going to play against him, I just wanna play small pots. So I mearly double the blinds.

Small Stack (sb) calls and Big Stack Min Raises, I Min Raise again to get the (SB) out who folds, now Big Stack flat calls.

Flop comes 8c Kd Js (Rainbow)

Big Stack checks, The Pots gotten a little big from the action pre flop but never less I have to bet to protect my set here. I bet out 700 into a pot of around 2200.

Action moves to the Big Stack who re-raises all-in. Now I have 2000 in chips left with 1500 invested into a pot of 4200 and I have a set of Jacks.

I stare down the Big Stack for about 5 minutes, could he have a set of Kings or is he trying to push me off with a semibluff draw. Thinking back to the preflop action we raised and re-raised each other but he was the one who ended the action, then he check raises me on the flop.

I put him on AK, KJs, QTs or maybe a set of 8's. If I fold here I'll have 2000 chips left and still a chance of making 3rd.

What do you think the Big Stack has and what should I do??

[pergesu]

You lose to one hand. ONE HAND. And you beat 19283470129835712098341208937461209834712 hands that he could easily have.

I can't call fast enough.

[Michael C.]

You look overhead, put your hand in the air, yell out "curse you Red Baron," and then you put all of your chips in the pot. And then you put them into your stack and get ready for the next hand.

[Sabrazack]

You bet to "protect" your set on a pretty uncoordinated rainbow board? What is it your set needs protecting from? The first minraise preflop doesn't seem godawful, only a little. But min-re-reraising is just bad. I'd probably push if he hasn't been too tight.

Edit: Oh, and by the way. If you fold this you are either Phil Hellmuth or you suck, or maybe both. Cheers.

[pergesu]

Oh yeah one last comment.

On that flop, you should not be trying to figure out if you've got the best hand. You should be trying to figure out how to get him to put all his chips in the middle.

[bones]

Don't listen to these guys. He could have KK. BTW, there's a seat on my left open if you feel like playing.

[pokerbo]

[ QUOTE ]
You bet to "protect" your set on a pretty uncoordinated rainbow board? What is it your set needs protecting from? The first minraise preflop doesn't seem godawful, only a little. But min-re-reraising is just bad. I'd probably push if he hasn't been too tight.

Edit: Oh, and by the way. If you fold this you are either Phil Hellmuth or you suck, or maybe both. Cheers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not Phil Hellmuth, maybe I do suck a little though /images/graemlins/crazy.gif , I like to take time with any calls where all my chips are going into the pot unless I have the nuts.

In this particular hand I was around 95% sure I had the best hand so I made the call.

I take it you all think it is worth going out on the bubble in this situation if he does have the set of Kings or an Open Ended Straight draw and gets lucky? If I fold here, I'm pretty sure I will take at least 3rd place, whereas if I call I could take 1st or 4th, whats a guy to do /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Yeah I haven't read Phil's book but I'm sure that there's a chapter in there somewhere that explains why this is an easy fold assuming you are the better player which certainly sounds like the case based on your post. The explanation probably goes something like this - you can probably put villain on a hand like AK in which case you have 3 (count em 3!) ways to lose, runner runner KK, AA or AK. It just doesn't make sense to take unneccessary risks like this, FOLD and wait for a better spot.

That is of course unless you got a real good read from staring him down for 5 minutes, then you MIGHT be able to justify calling but it would have to be a real solid read.

If he has AK then runner runner QT is also possible making this an even easier fold.

[pokerbo]

As I said earlier on, I actually called in this spot and the Big Stack turned over Kings knocking me out in 4th place and $0 pay day.

Do you think it is worth going out on the bubble in this situation if he does have the set of Kings or an Open Ended Straight draw and gets lucky?

If I fold in this spot I'm pretty sure I will take at least 3rd place, whereas if I call I could take 1st or 4th??

(Bad Read - Bad Call) or (Bad Read - Good Call)

[jwesty5]

[ QUOTE ]


If I fold in this spot I'm pretty sure I will take at least 3rd place, whereas if I call I could take 1st or 4th??

(Bad Read - Bad Call) or (Bad Read - Good Call)

[/ QUOTE ]

If you fold your roughly even in chips with 4th place. What makes you so sure you'll take 3rd? Why would you play for 3rd anyway?

[pokerbo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


If I fold in this spot I'm pretty sure I will take at least 3rd place, whereas if I call I could take 1st or 4th??

(Bad Read - Bad Call) or (Bad Read - Good Call)

[/ QUOTE ]

If you fold your roughly even in chips with 4th place. What makes you so sure you'll take 3rd? Why would you play for 3rd anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I've played with the Short Stack many times, our secret nick name for him is bubble boy as he plays stupidly tight. Allthough I took his Nick Name this time /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I never play for 1st, I play for money. I'm happy with 1st place, 2nd place or 3rd place wins.

Once the play get's 3 handed I'm willing to gamble up a bit more and play more aggressive. Although thinking about it, I think my call was correct and +EV in the long run?

P.S The only reason I'm even questioning this play is because there were 4 players left. If there were 10,9,8,7,6,5,3 or 2 players left my chips woulda been in the pot before his.

[smokingrobot]

i thought you shouldnt even wrassle w/ the big stack when you're trying to stay in to make 3rd...

but in this situation, you already have. you'll probably not be able to take many pots til lthe blinds deplete your leftovers if you fold.

im new to this, but i'd definately call the all-in.