playing weak tight vs. running bad

[PYITE]

I cannot figure out which one is happening, but I'm really frustrated!

I'm still a newbie, but going bust playing 3-6 @ Taj my last 3 trips down there has me scratching my head. I'm not looking for a pat on the back, or a "hang in there", just a little feedback.

Here is what I've concluded....

(1) I believe I've fallen into a weak tight mode, and don't know how to change that. I am relying on fit or fold EVERY time I see a flop. I routinely lay down middle pair with overcard kickers if someone bets.

(2) I believe I am just running bad as well. My 4 flush never gets there, my top pair gets outkicked, ect. My starting standards are very tight (only play 15% as per THFAP), so I've become a rock that bleeds slowly.

So my question is this, am I playing weak tight because I believe I'm running bad, or do I just think I'm running bad because I'm playing weak tight?

Sorry, that was really confusing!

Post it anyway....

[Allan]

Regarding #1, you may be giving up on profitable opportunities by laying down EVERYTIME. You have to take into account how the value of your hand relates to the pot size and number of opponents involved in the hand. The size of the pot absolutly needs to be considered.

I think you might not be playing optimally, rather than running bad. There is a chance that if you are laying down this easily that you may not be playing agressively enough as well. I would post some hands and try to get some specific help from the talent here.


Allan

[Joe Tall]

I'm right with you ,PYTIE, I went through a tough weak-tight stage, and I'm also fairly new (just a few months). What I did to snap out of it was, hand analysis. Try to remember (or even jot down in a notebook) the hands you lost on, failed to raise, laid down in the wrong spot. I found a trend here and then slowly rebuilt my aggression with such hands. Shortly thereafter, It all 'righted' itself.

[Bob T.]

Probably both. It is hard to be aggressive, if you never win a hand, and if you aren't aggressive, then it is harder to win.

In most 3-6 games, if you lay down middle pair to a bet all the time, you aren't giving up much. You are only about 1 out of 10 times, and if you do, you still don't have a guaranteed winner.

Even if you are a winning player, this kind of run happens occasionally, and you need to deal with it. Review hands that you played, and see if you could have won them, or saved bets. Sometimes, you let someone in for cheap that eventually beat you, when a bet or raise would have eliminated them from the pot. Sometimes, your opponent told you that you were beat, and you ignored the information, and called anyway. Yesterday, it took me three extra big bets when I had AA to concede that I was behind, It would have been a lot smarter to keep those bets in my pile, instead of calling when I thought that my opponent played his hand just like top set. Post some hands, and maybe we can help with the leaks.

[Vehn]

Weak tight is usually close to the correct way to play in most low limit games to be honest. But you can often fudge on your pot odds as you can figure that they are higher than they appear at the moment because of the frequently passive nature of your opponents. For example, playing this weekend this hand came up. There was an early limper and I raised in MP with QTs. I was 3-bet by the button, an ABC calling station, the blinds folded and both the limper and I called. I was sure the button had either AA KK or QQ. The flop came A J 8, it was checked to the button who bet, the limper called, and I called getting ~12:1. As I thought, the turn was checked through and so was the river (both bricks) and the button won with pocket queens (there was zero chance of him folding post flop).

[BrPrometheus]

Low limit games at the 3-6 level. Now I am relatively new as well and so i am constantly worried about plaing the correct way as well. I have recently gone into a small slump of about 12 hours of complete crap for hands. For the first 6 hours of that period I played tight aggressive. I would have a reasonable read on my opponent think I was close to the best and or the best hand and be betting and raising to clarify my opponents position. But becuase the limits are so low I get chased down by the flush, the Ax that hits two pair and smooth called the whole way. It was a very frustrating 6 hours.

I slowed down for the next 6 hours. Still got completely crap cards. However, during this time I made a rule to never aggresively bet middle pair good kicker, smooth call or try and get a read on the better and fold and never call if there are already two callers cuase it is likely one has the over pair and in a low limit game you are not getting very good odds to draw unless everyone is playing. I also watched the flush and straight drawers. At my table there always seemed to be one and he often sat there and smiled as he raked in pots but got them blinded away by his constantly seeing the flops. At the end of the second 6 hours I still lost money but a whole hell of a lot less and I had a much better read on the table.

I don't see not being aggressive with middle pair good kicker as being weak tight in a low limit game. i think that you will face too many Ax, Kx hands that have you beat to begin with and have just as much a possibility of getting that lower card hit into two pair as you do of hitting your two pair to make this bet worth it in low limit games.