I didn't like this one

[djr]

Thishand kinda bummed me out.. did I make a mistake anywhere or was it just unfortunuate?

7 Card Stud High-Low ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (hand converter (http://www.geocities.com/greenage22/7StudConverter.hta.txt))

3rd Street - (0.88 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls___calls
Hero: A/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/club.gif___brings-in___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif___completes___calls

4th Street - (9.38 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks___folds
Hero: A/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif___calls

5th Street - (6.19 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif___bets___calls
Hero: A/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif___raises
Seat 7: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___checks___calls

6th Street - (12.19 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets
Hero: A/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___calls

River - (15.19 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif xx___bets
Hero: A/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif xx___checks___calls

Total pot: 18.19 BB

I don't think you can caller river. I don't think you can win it. On 5th, i don't think you can raise with 2 people pairing door card and 1 with striaght or flush possibilities. . I'm split between calling or folding on 5th. at best you are behind to probably two people with 2 pair and possibly worse. doesn't look promising.

Reraise on 5th is very questionable... call on 7th is out of the question...the guy did not raise with air

[djr]

I agree the raise on 5th wasn't the best move, it was a bluff to get the sevens to fold. But why not call the river? the only aggression from either person was seat 2 when he paired his door card (I'm talking other than 3rd street). There's no garautee he has a low at this point. The other guy likely has in that direction. Shouldn't I call to see if my 567 low is good given the size of the pot?

[arcticfox]

You have to call the river, either your 7 low or your pair of aces will be good at least one time in 10 which makes this profitable. A fold on the river would be terrible.

[benneh]

i cant find a fold on the river, but I don't really feel great while calling either. i think 567 could be good often to make it profitable though.

Please excuse my previous comment. I had thought it was just high. It would be useful for stud/8 to indicate this in the title of post.

Looking at hand correctly now, i would say that you have to call river. You will probably lose both, but you need to call.

[dibbs]

Play much lower and a newb so JMO...

Looks good but I don't think the raise on 5th is great, you may get jammed in this spot, doesnt feel like a good place to push.

I make a groaning call on the river cuz the pot is so big. Sometimes I'll have sessions where pretty much every hand plays like this except I nail K + Q on 6th and 7th. That's the game /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Bartholow]

Folding the river would be awful.

I actually might have raised again on 6th. You are ahead of seat 2 in one direction or the other, and you'd like seat 7, who hasn't shown any strength, to fold. This might be foolhardy though, as your hand isn't great in either direction.

[Andy B]

Pity that you got shut out, but I think you played it well. I do like the raise on fifth. You probably have the best low draw, and you may have the best high hand as well. I think that getting this one heads-up with position is desirable.

[DeadMoneyOC]

I want to raise 6th also. I want to at least try to get the hand HU. If you let three people showdown cheap then your hand is going to lose value in both directions. If you are HU then you at least have a pair and you can also improve to make better two pair/better low. Obviously this isolation play wont work often if the other guy has anything besides those 7s but I think its definitly worth a shot. If the guy with open dueces just has low, then you have the high and a nice draw to improve. If he has two pair, then you have the low and a nice chance to improve to As up. If he has 222 then you have the low. You wouldnt want the guy with open 7s out at that point if the other guy has trips but I think in general a raise on 6th is correct. I mean...it MIGHT work. lol Even if you didnt get HU it doesnt matter for a number of reasons. Ill post those next time.

[Ray Zee]

not the time to raise on 3rd
a raise on 6th may get out the spade guy who could have a weak low draw and fold. this is the key play in this hand.

please dont come back and say why knock out a guy with a low draw thats drawing dead to his low.

[mscags]

Why don't you want to raise this on third? I raise it every time, he has a great hand that does well multiway and heads up. Am I missing something here?

[DeadMoneyOC]

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1213208
pokenum -7s8 ac ad 5h 6c 3c 8h - ah 3d 2d 6s 2s 7h
7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 1560 enumerated outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ac 6c 3c Ad 8h 5h 138 1255 305 0 196 1358 6 0.466
6s 2s 3d 2d Ah 7h 247 305 1255 0 1358 196 6 0.534


http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1213209
pokenum -7s8 ac ad 5h 6c 3c 8h - 4s 5c 2d 6s 2s 7h
7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 1560 enumerated outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ac 6c 3c Ad 8h 5h 164 978 582 0 291 1269 0 0.407
6s 4s 2s 5c 2d 7h 455 582 978 0 1269 291 0 0.593


http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1213211
pokenum -7s8 ac ad 5h 6c 3c 8h - 6h 5s 2s 6s 2d 7h
7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 1560 enumerated outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ac 6c 3c Ad 8h 5h 303 397 1163 0 1280 280 0 0.537
6s 5s 2s 2d 7h 6h 186 1163 397 0 280 188 0 0.463


http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1213212
pokenum -7s8 ac ad 5h 6c 3c 8h - 7d 5c 2s 6s 2d 7h
7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 1560 enumerated outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ac 6c 3c Ad 8h 5h 317 420 1140 0 1273 287 0 0.543
6s 2s 5c 7d 2d 7h 184 1140 420 0 287 181 0 0.457


http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1213213
pokenum -7s8 ac ad 5h 6c 3c 8h - 2h 5s 2s 6s 2d 7h
7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 1560 enumerated outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ac 6c 3c Ad 8h 5h 46 62 1498 0 1271 289 0 0.427
6s 5s 2s 2d 7h 2h 273 1498 62 0 289 179 0 0.573


So most of the time you are going to be a small dog. If you let the other guy in I am pretty sure you would become a much bigger dog. Some of those simulations might also be a little generous, but I think in general we are going to be a 6 to 4 dog here. Not bad.

[djr]

wow. I actually got the master to post a reply /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

But I agree with mscags...why is 3rd not the time to raise?

Also, although I won't come back with "why knock out the dead low draw?", I actually know that answer...I debated raising sixth and my gut just said not too. Spades are reasonably live and he could have had a straight draw (if I had been better at keeping track of cards I would have realized there was only one six and not two still out there). If my read is he's likely not going anywhere if I raise, is a raise still warranted?

[mosta]

[ QUOTE ]
...

Also, although I won't come back with "why knock out the dead low draw?", I actually know that answer...

[/ QUOTE ]

is it b/c you're worried about his high hand potential, which you want to knock out?

[djr]

you got it. 6th street I only had a pair of aces. Worst thing is for that pair of sevens to make two pair and me stick with my lonely aces. As it turned out, he had the flush on 6th and was afraid of the seat 2 betting the open pair. Funnily enough, seat 2 didn't even have trips, he just had the pair of twos with a weak low draw. Then again, it was strong enough to beat my low on the river.

[djr]

[ QUOTE ]
not the time to raise on 3rd

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? I doubt I'm the only one who doesn't understand this.

[Andy B]

AA5 is better heads-up than multi-way. By raising on third, you make the pot big enough that you should have trouble thinning the field later. If you just call, maybe someone will bet into you on fourth street allowing you to raise and thin the field. This is probably more valuable than getting the money in with the best hand on third street.

At least I think that's where Ray's coming from. All that said, I raise on third. I can't help myself. /images/graemlins/grin.gif