Mastering tens postflop

[pergesu]

He only has 255 behind after his turn bet, but I thought I was good.



***** Hand History for Game 2682988218 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:15589748 Level:3 Blinds(25/50) - Friday, September 09, 17:37:39 EDT 2005
Table Table 11883 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: reyn7754 ( $2035 )
Seat 2: WingGypsy ( $395 )
Seat 3: AceCards3 ( $910 )
Seat 4: republic2 ( $1385 )
Seat 5: spud_curlman ( $460 )
Seat 6: chapdevine ( $655 )
Seat 7: TOMSYL ( $505 )
Seat 9: pattywack85 ( $925 )
Seat 10: replaythis49 ( $730 )
Trny:15589748 Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to pattywack85 [ Tc Ts ]
replaythis49 folds.
reyn7754 raises [100].
WingGypsy folds.
AceCards3 folds.
republic2 calls [100].
spud_curlman folds.
chapdevine folds.
TOMSYL calls [75].
pattywack85 calls [50].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qc, 3s, 4s ]
TOMSYL bets [50].
pattywack85 calls [50].
reyn7754 calls [50].
republic2 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2h ]
TOMSYL bets [100].
pattywack85 is all-In [775]

[citanul]

i don't know why you would think you were good here, particularly not with 2 opponents to the turn. similarly i don't really understand why yuou didn't push preflop. i think i would push preflop.

citanul

[pergesu]

I've got plenty of chips, and am getting 7-1 on the call preflop. Thought it was better to take my half price awesome pot odds and see a flop.

SB min bet the flop, which I didn't take to mean much. When the preflop raiser didn't raise, I figured he had an absolute monster or absolutely nothing. When another small bet came on the turn, I felt I had SB beat, and didn't really have to worry about the other guy.

[citanul]

there's also 350 dead chips in the pot, which while a reasonable thing to think "hey, that's good pot odds, i could call here" is also a nice reason to think "hey, i've only got 875 chips, those 350 chps sure would look great in my stack" when you have the 5th best hand in poker.

citanul

[bigt439]

I'm with citanul. Push preflop. Given that you didn't calling the flop is fine. You can't push the turn solely because of the guy behind you who can have a badly played Q or better a decent amount of the time. There's no particular reason to think you beat SB unless you haven't told us something. He led into a multiway field twice. I mean sure you can be good, but I think that's the exception not the rule.

[Chaostracize]

Reraise preflop.

[Thriller]

Would this reasoning change if he were playing at Pokerstars with their bigger starting stacks?

Assume the same blind level, but proportionately more chips for everyone. Don't change the raise or the bet amounts, but only their starting stacks.

Is it still a push PF?

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
"hey, i've only got 875 chips, those 350 chps sure would look great in my stack"

[/ QUOTE ]

You're absolutely right. Given that there was a raise and two calls though, it's pretty likely that I'll get called in at least one spot by some overcards. Now of course I'll be ahead, and I like the overlay...but is the overlay enough to risk busting 47% of the time?

[jeffraider]

[ QUOTE ]
is the overlay enough to risk busting 47% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if you definitely busted 47% of the time you pushed then it would be closer but being that you probably don't even get called a small majority of the time this move is super profitable.

Postflop the way you played it, I'd raise the flop to 200-225ish and play from there. Your hand is vulnerable so I think it's important to give yourself a chance to win it now and otherwise gain some more information.

[Misfire]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't know why you would think you were good here, particularly not with 2 opponents to the turn. similarly i don't really understand why yuou didn't push preflop. i think i would push preflop.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wouldn't you play for set value? I didn't think his stack was hurting that bad.

[citanul]

because i don't only attempt to get chips when my stack is hurting, sometimes i just try to get big piles of chips to get big piles of chips.

citanul

[chisness]

i don't mind calling pre but fold to the min bet on flop -- too many acting after and too hard to play

minraise pre is kinda shady, i dont mind pushing pre but also dont mind calling (but proceeding very carefully without a set and certainly if there are overs)

[Angelic_Ace]

I agree with Citanul, push preflop. I'd prefer to take it down right there or have a race with good odds then have to deal with a flop and tricky situations.

[BDarch]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"hey, i've only got 875 chips, those 350 chps sure would look great in my stack"

[/ QUOTE ]

You're absolutely right. Given that there was a raise and two calls though, it's pretty likely that I'll get called in at least one spot by some overcards. Now of course I'll be ahead, and I like the overlay...but is the overlay enough to risk busting 47% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

even thought a lot of the time it will be a coin flip I also think a lot of the time you will get a call from 55-99 after you push just becasue they think it looks suspicious which greatly adds to your equity.

[Misfire]

[ QUOTE ]
because i don't only attempt to get chips when my stack is hurting, sometimes i just try to get big piles of chips to get big piles of chips.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this something you do at random? Is there something about this hand or this table that tells you it's time to push? When it is appropriate to play TT for set value and when is it time to try to get big piles of chips?

Maybe I just don't have much finesse...

I can't find this play in a multi-way pot.

Probably not.