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pergesu
09-09-2005, 05:26 PM
Bones said I could make this post and get flamed. I thought it was pretty easy.

fwiw, I call the initial raise and push any non-club turn. When the guy pushed over the top, felt I was beat. Plus he busted out a harrington squeeze on me.



***** Hand History for Game 2682898185 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:15589798 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Friday, September 09, 17:20:19 EDT 2005
Table Table 11506 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 5: Tolstoi ( $775 )
Seat 9: TopherDane ( $800 )
Seat 3: rogergoe ( $690 )
Seat 6: KY049 ( $995 )
Seat 8: Gotheace ( $785 )
Seat 10: pattywack85 ( $800 )
Seat 7: LilDog07 ( $555 )
Seat 1: Reeferstack5 ( $1030 )
Seat 2: JTPiano23 ( $825 )
Seat 4: markulus ( $745 )
Trny:15589798 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to pattywack85 [ Ks Kd ]
pattywack85 raises [45].
Reeferstack5 calls [45].
JTPiano23 folds.
rogergoe calls [45].
markulus folds.
Tolstoi calls [45].
KY049 folds.
LilDog07 folds.
Gotheace folds.
TopherDane folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6c, 2c, 9c ]
pattywack85 bets [100].
Reeferstack5 raises [350].
rogergoe folds.
Tolstoi will be using his time bank for this hand.
Tolstoi is all-In [730]
pattywack85 folds.

lorinda
09-09-2005, 05:27 PM
Raise far more preflop in an $11 game.

Lori

durron597
09-09-2005, 05:31 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Raise far more preflop in an $11 game.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

And the fold is fine since you didn't.

lorinda
09-09-2005, 05:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise far more preflop in an $11 game.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

And the fold is fine since you didn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never go broke in an almost unraised pot /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Lori

bigt439
09-09-2005, 06:26 PM
Preflop made me cry a bit. The fold helped dry the tears.

kyro
09-09-2005, 06:28 PM
The way I see it.

If you're ahead, it ain't by much.

If you're behind, you're drawing dead.

Still, at a $11, calling can't be too wrong, but I like a fold as well.

kong98
09-09-2005, 07:02 PM
I like the fold.

[ QUOTE ]
Raise far more preflop in an $11 game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious what "far more" is? I usually raise to 45 or 50 on lvl 1. With kings we don't want to let the whole world in, but we definitely don't want to just steal the blinds at this level.

I think a raise to 100 is too much, and I'm wondering where you think the sweet spot is?

AlphaWice
09-09-2005, 07:10 PM
I think pushing is better than a 45 raise, honestly. Alot of times you will get called by 77+, AT+

Best move is probably raise to 100 or 120, and then get it all in on any non ace flop.

Weatherhead03
09-09-2005, 07:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Best move is probably raise to 100.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pushing is not better than 45. What do you gain out out of that. With a push in level 1 like that you are taking all the "poker" out of the game. With a normal raise of 80-100 you can actually expect to win some chips other than the blinds.

I dont think the odd sucker will offset for all the times you just pick up the blinds with a great hand of KK.

valenzuela
09-09-2005, 07:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Best move is probably raise to 100.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pushing is not better than 45. What do you gain out out of that. With a push in level 1 like that you are taking all the "poker" out of the game. With a normal raise of 80-100 you can actually expect to win some chips other than the blinds.

I dont think the odd sucker will offset for all the times you just pick up the blinds with a great hand of KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why ppl relate poker with flops??? If I refuse to play postflop Im not playing poker???
I rather push than bet 45..im not saying pushing is the best line though.

pergesu
09-09-2005, 08:27 PM
There is not a chance I'm pushing this UTG.

The trouble with a much bigger raise is that it'll knock everyone out a lot of the time. Ideally I'd like to play this against two opponents...improves the chance of someone hitting the flop and getting their chips in, without having to work my way through too many people. I can deal with three though.

A lot of the time if I go much bigger UTG, I get something like 88 to give me action. But I'd like to get a QJs coming along, and then betting it all on a QT4 flop.

The only way this doesn't really work is when there's a particularly ugly flop, as is the case here.

lastchance
09-09-2005, 08:39 PM
I think t60-t75 sounds about right here.

The Don
09-10-2005, 01:03 PM
I raise to 75 in 22s and 11s in L1 and 60 in 33s-109s. 45 certainly isn't adequate at an 11. Hell, when I first started playing I raised to 100 in L1 and 150 in L2 and still got a ton of action at the 11s.

The Don
09-10-2005, 01:03 PM
Oh and it is a clear fold given your situation.

09-10-2005, 02:22 PM
I think the fold was a smart move.

I also agree that the preflop raise was too small. You should experiment until you find the right amount to get you the number of callers you want, I would guess the 11's are pretty loose so the right amount would be at least 75.

tigerite
09-10-2005, 04:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think t60-t75 sounds about right here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I would also raise t60-t75 behind one or two limpers.

pergesu
09-10-2005, 05:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I would also raise t60-t75 behind one or two limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]
As would I, but I'm UTG here and would like to encourage some action.

tigerite
09-10-2005, 05:06 PM
You'll still get some for t60 in my opinion, at least from my experience QJs still comes along from donks.

FlyWf
09-10-2005, 05:15 PM
You people who want to push people out of the pot confuse me. KK wants callers. It wants as many as possible for as much as possible.

You don't raise with KK to limit the field, you are betting for value.

Chaostracize
09-10-2005, 05:17 PM
Call the flop, see a turn. Since you raised so little preflop, there is no shame keeping the pot small. I will not go broke on this board.

pergesu
09-10-2005, 05:28 PM
Huh? I'd have to call 730 on the flop. And I have 800 chips.

BadMongo
09-10-2005, 05:48 PM
Getting 2 people to call a bet of 90 is far better than 4 people calling 45. You get the same amount of money in the pot, with significantly higher chances to win it.

45suited
09-10-2005, 05:59 PM
UTG in level 1 with KK (in an 11), I like a raise to ~70. More often, I like to limp. Limping UTG raises no suspicion in an 11. Often it will get raised behind you, then it's good times.

As you played it, I like the fold. As Lorinda said, essentially, the pot was unraised after the pre-flop calling frenzy began.