Is there a time to play mid suited connectors?

[CobraGoat]

67-9T suited always look great to me but i feel like there value in SNGs is pretty low so i hardly ever play them.

is there a specific number of callers in front of me that i need to play them. should i just throw them away always. thoughts.

take it easy, im new here.

[barycentric]

[ QUOTE ]
67-9T suited always look great to me but i feel like there value in SNGs is pretty low so i hardly ever play them.

is there a specific number of callers in front of me that i need to play them. should i just throw them away always. thoughts.

take it easy, im new here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Outside the blinds you can't go very wrong by folding them. I might very occasionally limp LP after only fish limpers in front. I will usually complete from SB lvl 1 and 2 with 1+ limpers.

well there are a couple of things to consider with suited connectors. First of all, if the pot odds are high enough, they are great hole cards. If you hit what you want (especially the straight) then you will have a monster hand. But, early in an SNG, or at a super tight SNG, this might not always be the case, as people might just fold to any bet. This consideration gets into the idea of implied odds.

The other important thing to consider about suited connectors is that since they do have some value, you can use them to confuse your opponents. In Harrington on Hold'em, Dan Harrington says that he will sometimes make his typical "top pair" raise with these (he suggests 4-5x BB), just to confuse his opponents. One word of caution about that: This is only necessary to do if you think your opponents are smart enough to study you, and I believe that at the lower levels, this isnt always the case.

hope this helped.

Wisdom says that 3 criteria warrant playing mid suited connectors:

1. cheap flops
2. multi-way action
3. position

The reason I put position last is because it is very important but somewhat redundant. The best way to ensure criteria 1 and 2 is with good position. Additionally, unlike small pairs which also have speculative value, you typically will have to see past the flop to reap your implied odds and you need good post-flop position to ensure that this is worthwhile.

In other words, generally muck these in EP and limp in MP-LP esp. if there are other limpers. With a big stack AND a passive table, it also may be +EV to limp in EP.

It should be noted that these hands lose tremendous value at short-handed tables and late in tourneys when your stack shrinks compared to the blinds.

[barycentric]

I used to play suited connectors more until I got tired of the reversed implied odds I was giving on lower flush vs higher flush. I think Harrington was talking more about their usage in MTTs where they are more playable when deep-stacked.

[downtown]

[ QUOTE ]
take it easy, im new here.

[/ QUOTE ]

We should add something in the FAQ about not begging for mercy. It always makes me want to lay into posters when they say stuff like this. (I should point out that there is no *other* reason to flame the OP in this case.)

Otherwise, to the OP, STTs are generally not deep stacked enough for you to get paid off by playing low suited connectors. Also, you lose part of your stack and therefore some degree of folding equity (FE). FE is very important when the blinds get higher later in the tourney and you want to steal.

[45suited]

Not only do you lose FE, but every chip that you piss away early on speculative hands is actually pissed away geometrically each time you double up later.

downtown & 45suited,

I understand your reasoning but your stance sounds like you advise never (or rarely ever) to limp with speculative hands. Does this apply to small pairs, A-x suited as well in STTs?

Seeing a limped flop with 5 other players can't be that bad with these hands.

[45suited]

I didn't say that I wouldn't limp on the button after several limpers in L1, only that the OP should not fall in love with the concept for the reason that I stated.

With position, with good implied odds, and a cheap price, I'll limp with a suited connector in L1. But I think that most people play speculative hands too often as opposed to not often enough.

[Freudian]

I didn't use to but I am opening up in level 1-2 these days.

Of course at least a couple of limpers help if you want to play these kind of hands.

[Taraz]

The reason that it's not as bad to limp small pp is that if you hit your set you know that you're pretty much ahead in the hand. Suited connectors on the other hand aren't going to flop a flush/straight. So you get a draw and might have to bleed a few more chips to see if it comes in.

With all that said I will sometimes limp suited connectors in late position, but rarely Ax suited.

[downtown]

[ QUOTE ]
downtown & 45suited,

I understand your reasoning but your stance sounds like you advise never (or rarely ever) to limp with speculative hands. Does this apply to small pairs, A-x suited as well in STTs?

Seeing a limped flop with 5 other players can't be that bad with these hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll limp small pairs, I won't limp Ax suited. Small pairs will connect with the flop far more often than two suited cards will, and when I miss my set I can fold easily only having lost 15 chips into a multiway pot, whereas with Ax suited I might feel compelled to make a move or chase when 2 of my flush cards come out. Just my personal approach that has worked pretty well. You might want to take a look at Beating the Party 10+1, Part 2 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=602767&page=&view=&sb =5&o=), it's where my strategy started for the 10+1 SNGs, and has some decent starting suggestions that aren't absolutlely 100% everywhere, but will get you on the right track.

I like using 89s and up as positional raise hands. This really steams the blinds when they call and try popping a low flop because they put you on overcards :-) You have to have a good read on the board and hope the board thinks they have a good read on you. This is rarely ever the case in SNL's but the occassion does arise at times.

[Freudian]

I think they are very easy to play. Now the question is if they are profitable? I haven't really done an analysis. If I have some extra time I'll go through my PT stats and see how I do with them in level 1-2 (which is tedious since most of them are folds no matter what).

Fun suited connector hand I played earlier.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1620)
BB (t1280)
UTG (t2435)
MP (t1765)
Button (t900)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t90) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to t225</font>, Hero goes all-in 1620, BB calls 1620, MP calls t1280.

Turn: (t4520) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

River: (t4520) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Final Pot: t4520

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has 9h 8h (flush, ten high).
BB has 6h 2c (flush, ten high).
MP has Ad 2s (straight, five high).
Outcome: Hero wins t4520. </font>

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
Suited connectors on the other hand aren't going to flop a flush/straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t90) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh, would ya look at that?

Oh, and suited connectors can also flop 2 pair or even sometimes (gasp) a full house!

[newhizzle]

i play them in the first 2 rounds if i can get in cheaply