Should I check?

[SoBeDude]

Typical loose Party hand online.

I'm in MP with red 44 with 2 limpers ahead. Three more plus the BB after me, seven see the flop.

Flop:
J /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif K /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif

Ok, so I like my set but I have a flush draw on board. Checked to me and I bet. 3 Callers.

Turn: K /forums/images/icons/club.gif

So now I'm not afraid of the flush and I'm hoping my callers are on a king and/or flush draws. 2 check to me, I bet. Only one LP caller.

River is 7 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif I bet, no callers.

My question is the turn bet. Would I have been better off checking here with such a big hand? I was thinking that with a board like this and many opportunities for someone to make a second-best hand, betting was the best play. Also I didn't get the feeling the LP would have bet if I checked.

Am I right to bet?

Thanks for any input!

-Scott

[JTG51]

Am I right to bet?

Checking the turn would be a huge, huge mistake. You didn't say where the callers were, but what if one of the blinds had a K and wanted to check raise you on the turn? You'd end up costing yourself a boat load of chips by checking behind. What if a LP player had a K and was going to raise your bet? By checking you miss the chance to 3-bet him and really punish all the flush and straight draws that are drawing dead.

More importantly, the turn is often going to be your last chance to collect bets from flush and straight draws. If they all miss on the river you don't get anything from them.

[pufferfish]

Unless the ones that folded the turn were specifically on flush draws, you may not have gotten any callers on the river.

So, the turn check may actually cost you money.

[travisand]

I definitely would not check. People will usually continue to draw for the flush in spite of the pair on the board, make them pay. Someone might have already made their second best hand so giving them another card for free is no good. I also would not want to give somebody with a K a free chance to hit their kicker.

[SoBeDude]

OK. My bet was the only really correct play here.

Thanks for verifying that guys.

-Scott

[Homer]

Checking the turn is a horrible mistake. Jx and flush draws will call and Kx will raise/call, providing you with an opportunity to three-bet.

I'm curious as to why you think checking behind on the turn is even a remote option. What's your thought process? Do you want to give flushes an opportunity to get there on the river? They will call the turn anyway.

-- Homer

[SoBeDude]

I'm curious as to why you think checking behind on the turn is even a remote option. What's your thought process? Do you want to give flushes an opportunity to get there on the river? They will call the turn anyway.

Excellent question. I guess my thoughts were on a few issues. One is the "letting them catch up and make second best hands". I'm not afraid of letting the flush get there and actually I hope it does.

Another thought is trying to keep people in the hand who I want to extract more bets out of. Ever just get the feeling they're going to fold? I got this feeling and wanted to explore the possibilities of helping them stay in.

I also just recently reread the section of HPFAP where they talk about checking your good hands on the turn so I think it was fresh in my mind.

Especially with this board, I don't think the check is anywhere close to correct. There are too many ways this board is good for other players for me to risk missing bets. I simply wanted to hear others opinions on this and validate my thoughts.

thanks again for all the input

-Scott

[MarkD]

No.

Turn is a great card for you. Two people check - if they have a king this is a perfect chance to check raise you and you welcome it. Lots of people on paradise simply love to check raise the turn here. You only have one opponent behind you.

Expect all flush draws to call you on the turn, and all of them to fold on the river if they don't hit. Same with straight draws. There is simply too much potential money to be won on the turn to consider checking here.

[JTG51]

One is the "letting them catch up and make second best hands".

That idea doesn't really fit here. The hands that can catch up to make second best hands on the river (straight and flush draws) will certainly call a turn bet, so you don't need to let them catch up for free.

The only time you want to give someone a free card that will make a second best hand is when they would have folded to your bet. If they are going to call your bet anyway, there is no reason to check.

The best possible situation you can have in hold'em is the chance to charge players multiple bets when they are drawing absolutely dead. Those chances don't come along all that often, take advantage.

[Bob T.]

I think that betting is correct. This is your last chance to charge flush draws to get there, and if a flush card comes on the end, you might get to do the daily double, charge them for drawing, and then charge them for getting there. Additionally, anyone with a king, or even any pair is drawing live against your hand. You would like them to either fold, or have to call a bet to pay for the right to draw.