I'm a donk.... Where should I fold?

[CJHunt]

I know, I'm a donk. I have never read anything on O/8 so I don't know what the "accepted" starting requirements are. Usually I won't play without a strong High or a suited A2-A3 with something else. This table was fairly loose with very little raising pre flop which is why I make the call PF. Let me know where you (I should) fold.

Thanks in Advance.


PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Omaha/8 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (14.40 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.70 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

River: (22.70 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 26.70 BB

[CJHunt]

NvM

Fold Pre Flop
Fold the Flop
Fold the Turn

I'm an idiot. My bad Sorry all.

[Ironman]

CJ,

First of all, that is a good starting hand. Not one that I would go nuts over, buut certainly one I would see a flop with.

Speaking of flops...that's as far as I would have gone with this hand. It would have been in the muck as soon as I was required to call a bet.

It's true, a couple miracle cards came to gime you a good hand, but chasing after that would be a nitemare.

Oh, and I wouldn't have given any thought to that flush draw you were on. Those cards would cost you a lot of money if the flush actually came.

Good luck,

Dave

[ QUOTE ]
CJ,

First of all, that is a good starting hand. Not one that I would go nuts over, buut certainly one I would see a flop with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I crazy or are you two crazy?

A257 from LP in a loose low-stakes limit game, and one of you says fold preflop and the other says "I'd see a flop" as if it is marginal? Raise it with that many callers in!

What hands are you waiting for if you don't like A257 here with 4 callers already in and the blinds too and you are in LP??????????????????????

[Mendacious]

This is why I don't play limit anymore.

Yes I would see the flop. After the flop in PL if there were 8 people in, I don't call any bet that is bigger than half the size. The reason being somebody has an Ace and a better kicker, somebody has a bigger flush draw, and somebody has 23. So I'm behind and need two miracle cards to ever get back in the hand. However in your position, you are only required to put in a single bet and are probably getting 15-1 to see another card. For those odds, I take a chance that my hand develops (probably wrong). I do NOT raise the turn because I still have only 4 outs, and my raise is not gonna chase anyone who is ahead of me or has a better drawing hand. But I'm probably getting proper odds to see the river.

In summary (from a PL guy) in limit, I would have probably raised pre-flop with your hand because of position, called the flop, &amp; called the turn. The only cards I call if they turn are 3,4, A. If any of these fall, I think I will get fair odds for scooping the pot on the river.

[Ironman]

kidluckee,

You make an excellent point, but that's not how I would play this hand. I try to change things up frequently and probably call 70% and raise 30%.

Right or wrong, I prefer to give my action on the turn where I can raise for a double bet and get away from flops that miss me for little or no money.

Am I knocking anyone out by re-raising, maybe the blinds, but frankly those are the players I want in.

Am I knocking out another A 2? Not at .25/.50 I'm not. In fact he's the one that raised preflop the first time.

Am I losing money when I split the pot for low with another A 2 but don't win the high? No...there's enough people in calling the double small bets to cover that.

What range of hands do you put the other preflop raiser on?

I'd put him on two groups of hands at the .25/.50 level:

either A 2 (3 to 5) or A A (2 or 3)

Am I ahead here? My 5 and 7 don't look so good against 6 opponents.

Ok, let's say I raise and my opponent caps it preflop (which is the best situtation possible if we like raising here). We've all put in 2 big bets and the flop comes

9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I've just committed myself to seeing the rest of this hand through even though I saw the worst card I could possibly see on the flop counterfitting my low.

Is my flush draw worth anything? Not on your life.

Is my 2 5 (forth low DRAW) worth anything. Wow, I doubt it with all those opponents.

Dave (as I said, I would raise from time to time, I just don't want to be predictable where I play 3/6)

[Chamonyx]

Let me take a different tack to some of the other replies:

I would almost certianly raise pre-flop here: A2, 3rd wheel card, working with the 4th card which is also low, with weak suitedness. Not a bad hand at all for Limit, and I would certainly prefer to have the button.

On the flop I fold (20%) or raise (80%). I think the call is horrible. You have a hand that has 2 way prospects, although neither (probably) for the best hand. Especially if the bettor re-raises, you should thin the field, which is great because you do have weak flush draw (but unless someone has K suited and a low they should not be sticking around - or alternatively 23 with spades) and a straight draw for high. You also have a draw to the 4th low, with weak-cf protection. You cannot stand a lot of heat, but you are happy to cause some if it thins the field. Of course, you would rather have one side locked up, but I don't think this is a bad time to try the promotional raise - especially for a small bet.

Turn: you are still 7 players and no one is going to go anywhere now, so the call is probably correct (you like 7 cards out of 43).

[MyTurn2Raise]

I'd play this pre-flop; sometimes raise, sometimes call.

Fold as quick as humanly possible on the flop. There are too many players in. You have no chance at high; someone will hit a flush, boat, or high straight (people do play middle straight cards at low limit). You have 4th best draw for low. Gotta figure a 23 or 24 is in with that many players. Multi-player low limit is about drawing for nut hands.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me know where you (I should) fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

CJ - Fold to the bet on the second betting round.

It's very deceptive. Looks like you're getting odds to play with all these chasers, but neither your low nor your high prospects are very good.

I don't think you only play the nuts after the flop, but it's good advice to only <font color="red">draw</font> to the nuts for low or the first or second nuts for a flush.

That's going to cause raised eyebrows. What?! Draw to the second nut flush???
Well... not if you dont feel good about it. Change the seven of spades to the king (or even the queen) of spades and I'd probably see another card. Or change the seven of spades to the three of spades and I'd see another card, probably raising in the bargain.

But the way things are, I'd fold on the second betting round.

Buzz

[Mr_J]

Easy fold on the flop. Your flush draw is very weak and with so many to the flop it's very likely someone has a higher draw. You need runner runner for the wheel, but even then you may only getting the low since flush and higher straight can hit. Your low draw isn't good. All your draws are very weak, and even when you do hit there's a good chance you won't hold up (unless you hit the wheel and win the low half of the pot).