Poll on pocket pairs....

[Scuba Chuck]

Ok, it's L1 of an SNG, and someone from MP raises the pot. You're in the BB, and it's folded to you with 55. How big of a raise will you call?

Please choose the highest raise you would call.

Edit: Assume 800 chip stacks /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[adanthar]

Starting stacks are going to (should) affect the answer here a fair bit.

45 is about as high as I like to go but maybe I should be calling more

[newhizzle]

>55 or <55?

[Degen]

dude you keep leaving out important details like buy-in (stack sizes) and how many chips you got, and how many chips they got...


but for this i use the 5-10 rule:

rule states that if the raise is less than or equal to 5% of your stack AND their stack, then call a raise w/ any PP...if the raise is greater than or equal to 10% of your stack OR their stack, never call a raise w/ a small PP....and if its in between, use your better judgement based up how likely you are to extract mucho chips....so for the 33's and 55's, i'm more inclined to call 6-10ish raises, whereas in the 109s/215's i'm not.


-Andre 3000 & Big Boi

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Starting stacks are going to (should) affect the answer here a fair bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there's more to it than just that. For example, on the lower levels, a big raise to 90 might signifgy a likely QQ+ holding, and so stacking might be much more likely with a medium pair. But yeah, starting stack matters immensely here. That's why I chose L1. Just assume around a 800 chip stack start.

[Al P]

50-60 max with 800. You just don't stack off often enough when you do hit to be using the 10% rule all the time.

[durron597]

60 with 800 chips, 75 with 1k

Edit: Whoops, I just realized now that hero is the BB. My OP is what I would call cold. So add 15 chips /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[AtticusFinch]

I assume that opp has me covered. Also, I meant to click 75, not 90, but it's not that big a difference. I'm still putting in < 10% of my stack.

I'm a big fan of this play, but then I'm pretty happy with my ability to take down some of the pots I don't hit, especially when I act first (depending on the opponent, situation, blah blah).

As for them holding AA-QQ -- so much the better. All the more likely I'll stack them when I hit my set, then.

By the way, with another caller, it's even easier.

[AtticusFinch]

Just for yucks I checked over my last 10k hand histories. I've routinely cold-called raises (with pretty standard limitations based on stack sizes, position, etc.) with small pairs throughout this period.

The only two pockets I'm showing a loss for are 77 and QQ. I'm essentially breaking even with threes and fours. The rest all show a decent profit.

Guess I'm overplaying those Queens! Good to know. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Can someone who always folds small pockets to a raise make a similar post?

[ilya]

I voted "raise to 45," but I think calling a raise to 60 is alright. I'd need to be playing a 1000-chipper before calling a raise to 75 or more.

I am happier calling a raise from EP than one from MP. More likely the guy will stack off if I flop a set.

I probably fold even for 45 if the raiser is directly to my right and there a few people yet to act.

[fnord_too]

I put 75, that's a T60 call with 740 behind, which is ok in my book. 90 is iffy, calling 75 with 715 behind is little too thin for me here.

Edit - are people really folding for 30 more chips with 755 behind? Wow.

[se2schul]

[ QUOTE ]

but for this i use the 5-10 rule:

rule states that if the raise is less than or equal to 5% of your stack AND their stack, then call a raise w/ any PP...if the raise is greater than or equal to 10% of your stack OR their stack, never call a raise w/ a small PP

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does the size of their stack matter. For example, if a T4000 stack raises to T40 (4% of your T1000 stack), you can call cause it's 1% of his stack, but if someone with T300 raises to T40 (4% of your T1000 stack again), you can't call because he raised more than 10% of his stack?

What am I misunderstanding?

[Nicholasp27]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

but for this i use the 5-10 rule:

rule states that if the raise is less than or equal to 5% of your stack AND their stack, then call a raise w/ any PP...if the raise is greater than or equal to 10% of your stack OR their stack, never call a raise w/ a small PP

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does the size of their stack matter. For example, if a T4000 stack raises to T40 (4% of your T1000 stack), you can call cause it's 1% of his stack, but if someone with T300 raises to T40 (4% of your T1000 stack again), you can't call because he raised more than 10% of his stack?

What am I misunderstanding?

[/ QUOTE ]


the reason to call with pps is for set value...implied odds of hitting that set

if you call 50 against someone who only has 300 chips left, then the most you can win is 300 chips...so it's not usually worth it

likewise, if you only have 300, the most you can win is 300 as well (vs one opp)...plus in a tourney you can't reload, so risking 10% of your stack on a hand that needs to improve on the flop to continue playing is not usually wise

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

but for this i use the 5-10 rule:

rule states that if the raise is less than or equal to 5% of your stack AND their stack, then call a raise w/ any PP...if the raise is greater than or equal to 10% of your stack OR their stack, never call a raise w/ a small PP

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does the size of their stack matter. For example, if a T4000 stack raises to T40 (4% of your T1000 stack), you can call cause it's 1% of his stack, but if someone with T300 raises to T40 (4% of your T1000 stack again), you can't call because he raised more than 10% of his stack?

What am I misunderstanding?

[/ QUOTE ]

your implied odds are much more limited now. when you hit your set, you can only extract a maximum of 300 chips.

the main reason to play these small pairs early is so that you have a chance to flop a deceptive monster and double up. this perk is negated when going against a shorty.

[Ixnert]

[ QUOTE ]

Why does the size of their stack matter. For example, if a T4000 stack raises to T40 (4% of your T1000 stack), you can call cause it's 1% of his stack, but if someone with T300 raises to T40 (4% of your T1000 stack again), you can't call because he raised more than 10% of his stack?

What am I misunderstanding?

[/ QUOTE ]

The size of your opponent's stack caps the implied odds that you're getting on hitting your set. In your first case, given a willing opponent, you can double through -- 25:1 odds on your T40 bet. In the second case, no matter what your opponent thinks of his hand, you're not going to do better than 7.5:1 (300:40) because that's all your opponent has. If you discount those odds somewhat because your opponent certainly isn't going to stack off every time you hit, you don't really have odds to chase your ~5:1 set draw in the latter case, but do in the former.

Your own stack matters for similar reasons, because it caps what you stand to gain when you hit (as well as how significant the chips you will usually be losing are to your tournament chances).

[se2schul]

[ QUOTE ]

the reason to call with pps is for set value...implied odds of hitting that set

if you call 50 against someone who only has 300 chips left, then the most you can win is 300 chips...so it's not usually worth it

likewise, if you only have 300, the most you can win is 300 as well (vs one opp)...plus in a tourney you can't reload, so risking 10% of your stack on a hand that needs to improve on the flop to continue playing is not usually wise

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. Makes perfect sense.