2 AK hands, your play?

[1C5]

Both from $22.

Hand 1:

No read, push or fold or call?
Total number of players : 7
Seat 3: scrapman1 (1500)
Seat 4: Hero (1130)
Seat 5: auger74 (415)
Seat 6: Rob5622 (1030)
Seat 7: XSTU_UNGARX (860)
Seat 8: jcgroves (660)
Seat 9: bigdave1444 (2405)
scrapman1 posts small blind (50)
Hero posts big blind (100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ks, As ]
auger74 folds.
Rob5622 folds.
XSTU_UNGARX raises (250) to 250
jcgroves folds.
bigdave1444 folds.
scrapman1 folds.
Hero?






Hand 2.

Early. Do you just call here normally or reraise him?

Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: jrkess (160)
Seat 3: MadTider (2708)
Seat 4: jacobnmugatu (900)
Seat 5: Mr_King_SIZE (800)
Seat 6: Redman72111 (760)
Seat 7: Tino55 (549)
Seat 9: Hero (725)
Seat 10: JJ333JJ (1398)
jacobnmugatu posts small blind (15)
Mr_King_SIZE posts big blind (30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ad, Kd ]
Redman72111 raises (90) to 90
Tino55 folds.
Hero?

[1C5]

TTT please.

[wiggs73]

Hand 1, I kind of like a push. With a larger stack, I'd probably call, but having t900 with a t500 pot out of position could be difficult to play. I'd be satisfied with taking the pot down pre-flop and you might get called from AQ or the likes. At the worst, you're probably a slight dog. There's also some meta-game implications... you pushed a raise from your BB... but yeah, no one pays attention to this stuff at the 20s.

Hand 2, I don't usually like pushing this early into a tournament and you're in better position this time. I'd probably call this one and hope to take it down post-flop, either on a steal if it's checked to you or by hitting and value betting.

[hockeyf]

Hand 1 is an easy push. Second hand i call, and play the flop, you cant really make a reraise that doesnt commit you to the hand, a push is better than reraising but i call here.

[45suited]

Okay, I'll play...

1) Push

2) I could fold here.

I don't particularly feel like racing, I don't particularly like calling (since you might not get paid when you hit), and without reads, his raise represents real strength and a fairly significant portion of your stack.

Man, I hate writing this, cuz I know I'm gettin flamed. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

1. Easy push.
2. I probably call, or maybe re-raise to 180 to push out the riff-raff and have position post-flop if he calls you.

[Scuba Chuck]

Hand 1: You are the third stack by a slim margin in a 7 handed game. What's your mentaility? When will you clash? How do you intend to acquire chips for finding you way into the money?

Hand 2: I always call these. I know there are some who advocate a reraise to 150, to know where you stand. That seems like a strange proposition as it leaves 575 behind, and you're nearly committing yourself to this hand.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]

Man, I hate writing this, cuz I know I'm gettin flamed. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't hate a fold here. I don't really hate a fold, a call, or a push. I think a case could be made for any. The only thing I don't like is a raise that isn't a push.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, I'll play...

1) Push

2) I could fold here.



[/ QUOTE ]

Damn you're a pussy.

I'd push the first one: he has position on you, and it's for a good chunk of your stack, by pushing you make sure you see the whole board you lose your positional disadvantage. If you dont like the idea of pushing then fold. Absolutely do not call. He only has 8 BB so he could be doing this with a wide range of hands.

In the second hand I'm definatly not reraising. It's a little to early to be pushing all-in. You still have alot of people behind you and its for 1/8th of your stack. So I like folding. Your SnG structure is different from what I'am accustomed to, I usually start with 1500 chips, so I'm not really sure if this is an opportunity you need to capitalize on. If it is consider calling.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Damn you're a pussy.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. Have you seen some of my other posts? I can be a pushbot with the best of 'em. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

First off, 1C5 said he had no reads. Usually, I'll have some kind of read by then, but anyway, with no reads, I don't think that calling here does much. If you call, you're now down to t635 with the blinds coming in two hands. Any post flop play if you miss is going to leave you in the lurch. So I don't like calling, even with position.

All I'm saying is that I don't think that you're giving up much here by simply folding, assuming that you give UTG credit for a hand with his 3 BB raise. This I am sure of.

[durron597]

Hand 1 push, you have FE and I don't want to play AK OOP.

Hand 2 call, it's too early to be going for races and you still have enough chips to see a flop with position.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Damn you're a pussy.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. Have you seen some of my other posts? I can be a pushbot with the best of 'em. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

First off, 1C5 said he had no reads. Usually, I'll have some kind of read by then, but anyway, with no reads, I don't think that calling here does much. If you call, you're now down to t635 with the blinds coming in two hands. Any post flop play if you miss is going to leave you in the lurch. So I don't like calling, even with position.

All I'm saying is that I don't think that you're giving up much here by simply folding, assuming that you give UTG credit for a hand with his 3 BB raise. This I am sure of.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you might be giving up the possibility to stack someone with a weaker ace. Folding AK here can't be good CEV wise...

[1C5]

Well my thinking.

1st hand. 22s, often this meand AT AJ or a PP, I pushed, called by 88 which is what I was afraid of.

2nd hand, I called as I normally do, just seeing if others do the same.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, you might be giving up the possibility to stack someone with a weaker ace. Folding AK here can't be good CEV wise...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, obviously if I don't play a hand, I can't double up. That rationale could be used for every hand. I'm also giving up the possibility of crippling myself or losing my entire stack.

I don't hate calling, but I think you're kidding yourself if you proclaim with certainty that folding is a mistake. I almost never fold AK, but folding it under these conditions would not be terrible. What range are you putting UTG on w/o a read here?

[docodan]

My first thought on the first hand was that villain isn't folding pre-flop after betting 30% of his stack. Against any pair, you're a coin flip (blech). Since you're first to act after the flop, why not just call and push anything? You might still fold pocket pairs if you miss; a lesser ace or king is probably calling on an A or K flop; and if you get called by a better hand you're no worse off. The downside is you might fold hands that you're beating that might have called pre-flop, but what could these be? KQ or Ax on a flop that both miss?

Now...what should my second thought have been? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[AliasMrJones]

Hand 1: Push.
Hand 2: Call, though I don't think a push is terrible.

[downtown]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 push, you have FE and I don't want to play AK OOP.

Hand 2 call, it's too early to be going for races and you still have enough chips to see a flop with position.

[/ QUOTE ]

[BigHobo]

[ QUOTE ]
My first thought on the first hand was that villain isn't folding pre-flop after betting 30% of his stack. Against any pair, you're a coin flip (blech). Since you're first to act after the flop, why not just call and push anything? You might still fold pocket pairs if you miss; a lesser ace or king is probably calling on an A or K flop; and if you get called by a better hand you're no worse off. The downside is you might fold hands that you're beating that might have called pre-flop, but what could these be? KQ or Ax on a flop that both miss?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my thought process as well and I would probably call.

Based on his chip stack I don't think you have any fold equity here. As far as position goes, HU with short stack late in the game I want to be first to act.

My line goes like this: I call the bet. If an A or K comes on the flop I probably check. A check into pot of that size in comparison to villain's stack is almost guaranteed to induce an all-in bluff by villain, in which case I can get all of his chips. If I miss the flop I can then estimate whether the flop was likely to have hit the villain. If I don't think it hit him I can lead out and try to take the pot right there. On a dangerous flop I can just check and be willing to fold to an aggressive bet, which will still leave me with enough chips at that level to stay in the hunt.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Well my thinking.

1st hand. 22s, often this meand AT AJ or a PP, I pushed, called by 88 which is what I was afraid of.

2nd hand, I called as I normally do, just seeing if others do the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1: Great. Only 2 hands you're afraid of. You win that hand and you're well on your way to a top finish. Furthermore, the value of a bigstack is well worth the gamble with this hand.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, you might be giving up the possibility to stack someone with a weaker ace. Folding AK here can't be good CEV wise...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, obviously if I don't play a hand, I can't double up. That rationale could be used for every hand. I'm also giving up the possibility of crippling myself or losing my entire stack.

I don't hate calling, but I think you're kidding yourself if you proclaim with certainty that folding is a mistake. I almost never fold AK, but folding it under these conditions would not be terrible. What range are you putting UTG on w/o a read here?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, I said you were a pussy.

[45suited]

Good analysis. Very deep. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Much better to say that than actually consider that there might be some validity to what I'm saying.

It is actually possible for two people to have differing opinions on a hand and still both be winning players. I think that it's a closer decision than you're willing to admit, but it's just easier to call me a pussy.

I guess I can't really complain, since when I made the post, I knew what would be coming. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

It is actually possible for two people to have differing opinions on a hand and still both be winning players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good, because otherwise one of us wouldn't be a winning player and it would probably be me /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[chipolino]

Hand 1: Call. If I flop a pair I'm all-in.

Hand 2: Call.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Call. If I flop a pair I'm all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if you don't you just burned 20% of your stack with what is likely the best hand or has a decent chance of being the best hand by the river.

[chipolino]

[ QUOTE ]
My first thought on the first hand was that villain isn't folding pre-flop after betting 30% of his stack. Against any pair, you're a coin flip (blech). Since you're first to act after the flop, why not just call

[/ QUOTE ]

I also think that the 900 chips that u got left when u miss the flop still have some FE left in them.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Good analysis. Very deep. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Much better to say that than actually consider that there might be some validity to what I'm saying.

It is actually possible for two people to have differing opinions on a hand and still both be winning players. I think that it's a closer decision than you're willing to admit, but it's just easier to call me a pussy.

I guess I can't really complain, since when I made the post, I knew what would be coming. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on, that's why I didn't say you were wrong