your move?

[DMACM]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1900)
SB (t310)
Hero (t800)
UTG (t1740)
MP (t2030)
CO (t1220)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t350</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, hero ???????????????????????

[gumpzilla]

This is an excellent place for a stop and go.

[zambonidrivr]

i am folding. i would rather push any 2 than call a raise tht puts me in with A10

[sng-sam]

I don't like the stop and go here. Button has lots of chips and knows you are pot committing yourself. Thus if he comes up dry with AK,AQ,AJ or a low PP he will likely call regardless. I fold here. I like to be 1st in from here on out. If I am calling with this hand it will be when a very short stack pushes out of desperation.

Straight Flushes,

SAM

[durron597]

This is a button raise, reads would be extremely helpful here.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the stop and go here. Button has lots of chips and knows you are pot committing yourself. Thus if he comes up dry with AK,AQ,AJ or a low PP he will likely call regardless. I fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

After posting, you have just over 4 BB's left. You'll have about 3.5 when you're through the SB. Doesn't really leave a lot of time to dilly dally. Take into account that because it was folded to the button his range is much, much wider than the range you're suggesting, and also that the stop and go isn't universally recognized for what it is by all of your opponents, and I think it's a good move here. You have to play this hand, in my opinion, and I think the stop and go is the best way to get some folding equity.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
... and knows you are pot committing yourself. ...

[/ QUOTE ]

why is it so obvious that he knows that? making the assumption that your opponents are smart is very dangerous. possibly as dangerous in the right spots as always assuming they are dumb.

citanul

[schwza]

i think folding here is pretty bad. you have 5x left, and you're far enough back that you don't care about surviving - i think you're ok with an EV-neutral gamble. you're way ahead (i think) of villain's range, so you want to get the chips in.

as for a stop n go vs push, i think a stop n go is slightly worse. you're not going to fold out any hand that you're ahead of (if you might, then a sng is way better than a push). you're going to fold out unpaired hands, which is slightly -chipEV for you if you have no pair, but adds to survival, so that's good. but you will also occassionally not be able to get the chips in against a hand that's drawing nearly dead to your pair, which is a disaster. so i push.

[AliasMrJones]

I think you have some FE here so I'd vote push, though I think stop n go is OK, too.

that's odd, with no real read, i'd assume you have no folding equity at all with a preflop push.

citanul

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
that's odd, with no real read, i'd assume you have no folding equity at all with a preflop push.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Villain started with 1,900. After his initial bet of 350, he has 1,550 left. Not great, but about 10xBB and more than shorty and more than you will have if you push and he folds. If you push, he calls, and he loses, he will be down to 1,100 and the second lowest stack. His raise is interesting because it is slightly more than 3xBB, enough to put SB all-in. It looks like he wants to go heads up with SB, but not do the big dance with a larger stack.

A read here would be very helpful, but minus a read, raising range of button is wide enough to often give you a coin flip or dominating A and I do think you have some FE here.

[citanul]

whoa, first off:

i odn't know how my post wound up as your post, but editted, that was clearly not my intention.

sorry about that.

for a recap, alias said that he thought hero should have good folding equity for a preflop push.

back to my next post.

egad.

citanul

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that's odd, with no real read, i'd assume you have no folding equity at all with a preflop push.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Villain started with 1,900. After his initial bet of 350, he has 1,550 left. Not great, but about 10xBB and more than shorty and more than you will have if you push and he folds. If you push, he calls, and he loses, he will be down to 1,100 and the second lowest stack. His raise is interesting because it is slightly more than 3xBB, enough to put SB all-in. It looks like he wants to go heads up with SB, but not do the big dance with a larger stack.

A read here would be very helpful, but minus a read, raising range of button is wide enough to often give you a coin flip or dominating A and I do think you have some FE here.

[/ QUOTE ]

there's more to the hand than your stack, and there's more to the hand than the villains stack. in fact there's more to it than both of them together.

sure, the facts are:

he starts with 1900. if he folds to your preflop push, he has 1550.
if he calls and loses he has 1100. however, if he calls and wins, he has 2700 or something. further, he has to call 450 to win 1300 or so, right? so more than looking at his stack, it's a rare opponent who will fold when calling and losing doesn't cripple him, getting 3-1.

citanul

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that's odd, with no real read, i'd assume you have no folding equity at all with a preflop push.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Villain started with 1,900. After his initial bet of 350, he has 1,550 left. Not great, but about 10xBB and more than shorty and more than you will have if you push and he folds. If you push, he calls, and he loses, he will be down to 1,100 and the second lowest stack. His raise is interesting because it is slightly more than 3xBB, enough to put SB all-in. It looks like he wants to go heads up with SB, but not do the big dance with a larger stack.

A read here would be very helpful, but minus a read, raising range of button is wide enough to often give you a coin flip or dominating A and I do think you have some FE here.

[/ QUOTE ]

there's more to the hand than your stack, and there's more to the hand than the villains stack. in fact there's more to it than both of them together.

sure, the facts are:

he starts with 1900. if he folds to your preflop push, he has 1550.
if he calls and loses he has 1100. however, if he calls and wins, he has 2700 or something. further, he has to call 450 to win 1300 or so, right? so more than looking at his stack, it's a rare opponent who will fold when calling and losing doesn't cripple him, getting 3-1.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

It is true that he's getting pot odds to call with anything, but while 1,100 isn't crippled it is second shorty and not very good shape. I think we have some FE and that coupled with the reasonable chance that we are ahead based on his position and interesting bet size makes me think pushing is better than stop n go, but I think it is close.