Flopped nuts with weak redraw (LO8)

[Sean D]

Party Poker (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="red">SB bets</font>, Hero?

I've been having trouble with these situations; flopping a weak made hand, with a low draw possible, and OOP. Raise, call or fold?

[Mendacious]

These hands are tough. I call the first bet. Get out at the first sign of trouble. Overplaying these hands to chase draws out can really crush you-- your upside is very small, the pot is small. Ideally you want some low drawers in, and for 2 more unsuited low cards to come so you can punish the lows and any lower straights on the river.

[Mr_J]

It's a hand that looks good but from what I can tell there is only 1 card you want to see on the turn, and that's the 9 of diamonds. Everything else either makes your hand the non-nut or puts a low on the board. First of all, a 7,9,J,Q or K could give someone a better straight. You also don't want to see a diamond, you don't want to see the board pair, and you don't want to see a low card. On top of all this, it's possible that you are sharing the high at the moment.

I'd only play this if I could see the river for cheap. I think maybe call, and if it gets reraised get out while it's still cheap.

[Buzz]

Sean - I suspected, when I saw the title, that your nuts involved a middle straight - and it did.

There's "the nuts" and then there's "the nuts." What I mean is some flopped nuts are very nice, while others are not.

In particular flopped middle straights do not have a tendency to hold up - and when they do, you usually will be splitting with low, meaning you're only playing for half the pot.

My best advice to you in a typical loose limit game is to check and fold to a bet. Trying to blow opponents away with a bet simply does not normally work in a typical loose limit game.

It's honestly very difficult for me to follow that advice myself, especially after a few days away from the table. My natural inclination is to bet and try to win the pot - but honestly, that simply does not work for me - and I don't think it will work for you either in a low limit game. And chasing, although a bit cheaper, is poor too. Omaha-8 is probably the only game where you can flop the nut straight and end up losing money over the long haul.

If you manage to get seated directly to the left of someone you think will bet with nothing after everybody checks, you might check and try making it a double bet after the person to your immediate right bets, and that might work in some groups - but otherwise I think your best move is to check and then fold to a bet. I don't expect the ploy suggested in this paragraph to work at most tables, but it might work at some if you have the right image (whatever that would be).

If you do fold your flopped nut straight to a bet, for heavens sake, don't let any of your opponents know what you have done.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[Vee Quiva]

King is a great card to come. No better straight possible yet, just more draws.

[Vee Quiva]

Theory Question:

With 7 players in the pot and you are playing for 1/2 the pot(probably), Do you want callers here?

Why is a raise on the flop not good? It's a cheap raise for one. It might chase out the diamond draws. Plus there are only 8 diamonds that can hurt us. The 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif helps us.

[Mr_J]

True, ok that's 5 cards /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is a raise on the flop not good?

[/ QUOTE ]

Vee - Because you're highly favored to get your butt kicked by the time you get to the river.

Buzz