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SackUp
09-08-2005, 10:23 PM
Donk is 46/22/1

standard call down? fold river?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (8 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (10 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB
Nick C
09-09-2005, 12:45 AM
MP1 is pretty LAGgy. Who knows what he has, really.

I play it the same, expecting to lose to JTo or A8o or something.
brazilio
09-09-2005, 12:53 AM
I raise a lot of rivers here, but not that one.
Evan
09-09-2005, 01:26 AM
yea, that's fine. I'm mainly posting to say I miss the days where we called this a gaybet. What happened? I still use "gaybet" when I take notes on people.
09-09-2005, 01:34 AM
Alot of times someone bets out on the turn like that it, I see a draw. But it could also be a connection with the jack. I'll usually raise the turn and check the river. That way I get 1 extra big bet out of the draw, and lose the same if he has a jack. Any thoughts?
Nick C
09-09-2005, 01:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Alot of times someone bets out on the turn like that it, I see a draw. But it could also be a connection with the jack. I'll usually raise the turn and check the river. That way I get 1 extra big bet out of the draw, and lose the same if he has a jack. Any thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're up against a draw (which would be something like T /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif in this case, I guess), then raising is good when you're up against an opponent who won't fire again on the river after he misses.

If you're up against an opponent who will bet again as a bluff when he misses, then you don't gain anything by raising the turn instead of calling twice. (In fact, the turn raise can work against you, if Villain donk-bets the river after he catches instead of whiffing on a checkraise.)

Anyway, though, it's kind of rare that you know for certain you're up against a draw. So I'll also mention that one potential advantage of the free-showdown type raise you're talking about is that, in some cases, you might potentially get Villain to fold a better made hand than you have with your turn raise. (And if he has a weak draw you can get him to fold, sometimes that's good too.)

That said, I personally don't use free-showdown raises as much as some posters here (and quite possibly I don't use them as much as I should).
Evan
09-09-2005, 02:02 AM
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you might potentially get Villain to fold a better made hand than you have with your turn raise.

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If villian has a better hand than us on the turn there is no way he's not showing it down (maybe if a very scary river card comes, we bluff AND he has a cogent thought process).
Nick C
09-09-2005, 02:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you might potentially get Villain to fold a better made hand than you have with your turn raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
If villian has a better hand than us on the turn there is no way he's not showing it down (maybe if a very scary river card comes, we bluff AND he has a cogent thought process).

[/ QUOTE ]

I was speaking generally in the sentence you quoted. (Well, that's what I was trying to do, anyway.)

I agree there's little hope of getting Villain to fold a better hand on the turn in the actual posted hand.
TheHip41
09-09-2005, 03:01 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you might potentially get Villain to fold a better made hand than you have with your turn raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
If villian has a better hand than us on the turn there is no way he's not showing it down (maybe if a very scary river card comes, we bluff AND he has a cogent thought process).

[/ QUOTE ]

I was speaking generally in the sentence you quoted. (Well, that's what I was trying to do, anyway.)

I agree there's little hope of getting Villain to fold a better hand on the turn in the actual posted hand.

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