($16) More fun with AK

[durron597]

Typical good LAGgy big stack.

Edit: want to make it clear in the OP that he was playing LAG well, not playing LAG like a "oh my action? RAISE"

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1220)
MP1 (t3355)
MP2 (t1450)
CO (t2075)
Hero (t1355)
SB (t2295)
BB (t1750)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls t50, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t200</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t150.

Flop: (t475) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t475) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (t475) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets t50</font>, Hero calls t50.

Final Pot: t575

[lastchance]

Raise on the end? He is paying you off with any A, and a lot of weaker pairs.

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise on the end? He is paying you off with any A, and a lot of weaker pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Looks like a Post Oak to me. I raise.

[RevAgain]

Wow, I reraise here every time, he will more often than not call another 150 or perhaps 200 with a pair, unless he has aces up he probably flat calls with two pair and if he reraises, which will be rarely, you can let it go without too much thought, if he's that loose you think he will regularly reraise on a bluff then you do the same and induce that bluff.

His bet could be a milking bet but more likely it's trying to get a cheap showdown with 2nd pair or something that could well call a small raise.

Don't play on Stars so maybe it's much different there.

[newhizzle]

fun

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise on the end? He is paying you off with any A, and a lot of weaker pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he had an ace, wouldn't he bet more?

Plus he is LAG, if he had a weaker pair wouldn't he bet? Passivity from this player was extremely unusual.

[lastchance]

First one, I guess you're right. But just because someone is laggy doesn't mean they're not going to bet more with an ace. More than anything else, I think this guy's got an ace. That, or he's bluffing. The chance he has you beat should be small.

Raise on the end.

[newhizzle]

does anyone else bet the flop?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
That, or he's bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the river, if he's bluffing raising is pointless. I would think the amount I lose when he's slowplaying doesn't make up for the times I get paid off by an ace. Plus my stack size can't really handle raising and folding to a 3bet.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
does anyone else bet the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes I bet with a whiffed AK, in this case I didn't against a big stack with these stack sizes, where I can't afford to lose the chips, and where he both is capable of bluff c/ring me AND is capable of checking top pair.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

Looks like a Post Oak to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

That works much better when you're not laying your opponent 11:1. He has to expect, at the very least, a call. So the best case scenario is that this is a blocking bet designed to look scary so you won't reraise him off his J. Now suppose you reraise, and get repopped by him. I really don't think you can call that bet, although he is laggy so maybe this 3-bet bluff is his plan all along. I'd rather not make the decision there. And thus I don't want to reraise here. I also think that unless you reraise small you're not going to get paid by worse hands all that often - otherwise why is he betting that small in the first place? - which means the risk/reward is a little too high for me. I probably call behind here. If his bet had been something like 150-200 I'd be more willing to entertain the notion of raising, but this whole thing is a little too weird.

And yes, this all assumes a somewhat rational opponent. If he's already shown himself to be kind of donkish and the minbet is just how he'll play here with a wide range of garbage, then I'll reraise. Against an unknown or a player I respect I'm just calling here, usually.

[bluefeet]

bluefeet66: i have NO prob just calling the river
bluefeet66: i'd c/b the flop though HU.....90% of the time anyway
durron597: not against a guy who can bluff c/r me
durron597: i can't afford to lose those chips
durron597: not against guy who can check top pair
durron597: his check tells me he doesn't have a 6, that's about it.
bluefeet66: yeah, i understand that
bluefeet66: 475 chips you're giving away when he throws 200 at you on the turn though (cuz he can)
durron597: no
durron597: because i call the 200
bluefeet66: i'm with you
bluefeet66: very good point
bluefeet66: you lead flop, he calls.........you're froze on the turn
bluefeet66: better chance to make your hand by accepting the check on the flop....calling a modest bet on the turn if need be
durron597: he's giving me a card, i have position, and he could easily have top pair OR bluff c/r me
durron597: sometimes C-bet is good, here it isn't
durron597: IMO
bluefeet66: i do agree with you. because of your stack size after the PF raise..........i agree :-)
bluefeet66: i play it the same way.......thought it looked familiar ;-)
bluefeet66: you can't lead, leaving yourself 700-800 when he pushes over....or worse yet CALLS
durron597: if his stack size was similar to mine
durron597: if he wasn't tricky
bluefeet66: yep
bluefeet66: give you 300 more chips and him 500/600 fewer...might be able to represent
bluefeet66: river is a riase, if turn didn't get so coordinated
bluefeet66: i'm not raising this river if my life depended on it
bluefeet66: you pick up a VERY nice pot if it holds.....your life if it doesn't
durron597: the problem is if he 3 bets me i'm in a horrible spot
bluefeet66: exactly
bluefeet66: cheaper/better to call with the best hand, than go to battle with what might be the worst
bluefeet66: ESPECIALLY in this hand certainly where he has the chips to push you off quite easily
bluefeet66: in hands like this one, i can't help but wonder if the party skin guys have an inherent/justified need to pick up the extra 150-200 chips, whatever
bluefeet66: they play maybe 2-3 hands postflop.....each one they do, their tourney is on the line.....on this hand, and future ones based on this hands results
bluefeet66: maximizing edges is much more critical for them
bluefeet66: risking ruin for 150 more chips in a 600 chip pot is just unnecessary most of the time
bluefeet66: it's like LESS than a BB 20min into a turbo
bluefeet66: i find accepting "decent" pots with "probably" the best hand, all the edge i need to get near/on the bubble w/ FE. i can't recall making "damn, sure hope i'm ahead here" calls in a turbo....just isn't necessary IMO
bluefeet66: i'll make raises/pushes of course when conditions are ripe....but VERY VERY few tough calls
bluefeet66: raising THIS river, "might" put you in a tough-call situation

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I also think that unless you reraise small you're not going to get paid by worse hands all that often

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly why I don't like raising. Plus reraising small reopens the betting.

[Burno]

Sometimes I'll make a smaller opening raise with a AK/AQ/99 hand so I leave myself enough room to make a continuation bet and still get away from the hand. This comes into play more on party's structure, but I think your stack size and blind level here also qualify.


In this case, had your raised to 150, you could afford to throw out a CB of 200 on hospitable flops, yet still get away from the hand with a reasonable stack intact.

Plus it looks scary if you've been opening for 200 and all of a sudden raise the big stack's limp just 3 BB.

[The Yugoslavian]

Yeah so I like the preflop action. I don't mind the flop check behind (I don't mind betting out either but whatev).

Okay...so why aren't you betting the turn here? He's practically begging you to take this pot. Laggy players either show their tricky nut hands pretty quickly or wish they had been betting when they wonder what you could have had.

Once you make it to the river here you have to figure your hand is good.....raise for value is mandatory, IMO. You will get weaker aces to call you (the whole friggin point of AK basically in the first few levels).

I haven't read the rest of the thread carefully, but why are you playing like a little batch in this hand?!

All of your hands are either weird FPS bluffs, or being scared of monsters.

Yugoslav

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah so I like the preflop action. I don't mind the flop check behind (I don't mind betting out either but whatev).

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes I c-bet with a whiffed AK, sometimes I check behind. This opponent was capable of c/ring with a worse hand AND c/ring top pair, so I just took the card.

[ QUOTE ]

Okay...so why aren't you betting the turn here? He's practically begging you to take this pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for finally addressing the interesting street! The reason I didn't bet the turn was that I was really shocked to see him check again. I thought that if he had any piece at all, any queen or eight, any pair, he would have bet by now, unless he had a monster.

[ QUOTE ]
Laggy players either show their tricky nut hands pretty quickly or wish they had been betting when they wonder what you could have had.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is, of course, the reason for betting. I'm really not sure what is the correct action here.

[ QUOTE ]

Once you make it to the river here you have to figure your hand is good.....raise for value is mandatory, IMO. You will get weaker aces to call you (the whole friggin point of AK basically in the first few levels).

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is he betting 50??!?!?!?! If he had a weaker ace wouldn't he bet more like 200?

[ QUOTE ]

I haven't read the rest of the thread carefully, but why are you playing like a little batch in this hand?!

[/ QUOTE ]

Please read the rest of the hand carefully then /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]

All of your hands you post are either weird FPS bluffs, or being scared of monsters.


[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

If they were basic hands, I have no reason to post them.

[durron597]

Alright, I'm sure everyone is burning with desire at the results.

He had JTo and HHIG.