Look out, Vince. He's put him to the test!

[bones]

Villian is an overplaying clown.

I butchered the turn pretty badly, IMO.

Thoughts on turn and river play?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t4240)
UTG (t605)
Button (t770)
Hero (t2385)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t300</font>, BB calls t200.

Flop: (t600) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t250</font>, BB calls t250.

Turn: (t1100) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t375</font>, Hero calls t375.

River: (t1850) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t1400</font>, Hero calls t1400.

Final Pot: t4650

[bones]

Bump. I think this is a fairly interesting hand/situation, but I think I'm being pwned by my own lame title.

[octaveshift]

I bet more on flop.

I lead turn. I don't like relinquishing betting impetus here.

[yeau2]

Can you rationalize your reasons for not pushing the turn, or at least check raising all in? From another point of view, are you planning on folding the river if its a brick?

[wiggs73]

I wouldn't raise pre-flop. There's no real reason to get involved in a big pot with the one person that can bust you. Calling will make the big stack less inclined to try to take the pot away from you and it will also allow you to get away from the hand easier.

Given that you raised it, I'd probably bet a bit more on the flop since it's a draw-heavy board and I'd lead the turn. But yeah, overall I'm not a huge fan of really getting involved with this hand... not with 2 short stacks on the bubble.

[ReDeYES88]

overplaying in what sense. . .
as in he'll overbet when he catches any piece?
he'll call bets with any piece postflop?
he'll call preflop raises with a wide range and a big stack?

If it's the first and he likes to take the lead, then I think I c/r the flop. Wouldn't this sort of player reraise you preflop with a hand that hurts you here?

Your flop bet looks like a standard cbet, so he called it (with probably a weak piece or a draw)

Your check/call of the turn makes it look like you whiffed the flop but might be on some sort of a draw. Rarely does someone change gears and slow down in this situation when they are ahead and know it.

On the river you're only behind to a backdoor flush or AK. His play is somewhat consistant with a trappy AK, except for the preflop flat call. I think a blocking bet might have been preferable to another lead check. As for the way it played out? Hell, I don't know if I'd call that or not. The size of the other two stacks make a big difference in my action.

Also, funny how his river bet left you with t65 chips or so behind, huh?


IMO, I think your best line might have been to take the t250 flop bet and t375 turn call and c/r'ed the flop for t625.

[ReDeYES88]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't raise pre-flop. There's no real reason to get involved in a big pot with the one person that can bust you. Calling will make the big stack less inclined to try to take the pot away from you and it will also allow you to get away from the hand easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd just flat call from the SB? What do you do when the BB bumps it to t300 or so preflop? Fold?

Of course, Hero is a bit lucky here that the BB BS didn't RR push preflop with the stack sizes the way they are.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
You'd just flat call from the SB? What do you do when the BB bumps it to t300 or so preflop? Fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and yes. Understand that this isn't how I "play KQ on the bubble". But with small blinds, 2 short stacks that are near equal in size that I have FE over, one huge stack that I have no FE over, and bad position... I'd play very weak-tight from the SB.

[ReDeYES88]

With the BS to your immediate left and the fact that any PF raise you make will have to go thru him, are you just going to bleed your blinds down until one of the shortys busts? That could be a long time with the blinds at 50/100.

Just curious. I wouldn't consider playing weak/tight in this position until the BB BS turned aggro and made me think twice about "normal" play at this level.

[FiReSiStAnT]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't raise pre-flop. There's no real reason to get involved in a big pot with the one person that can bust you.

[/ QUOTE ]

hes right, no reason to raise

I also dont like the raise amount here, in my opinion, u have bad postion on the BB and KQ can be a tricky hand to play

I think if you are forced to play this hand, WITH a raise a two bet will do just as much a a three...so id rather u just doubled it...but your position was bad to begin with

if you just called and he didnt raise, you can be confident that your ahead of him on the flop and push more if he is a donk....

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
With the BS to your immediate left and the fact that any PF raise you make will have to go thru him, are you just going to bleed your blinds down until one of the shortys busts? That could be a long time with the blinds at 50/100.

Just curious. I wouldn't consider playing weak/tight in this position until the BB BS turned aggro and made me think twice about "normal" play at this level.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I never said I was going to fold every hand until we're ITM. I just said I wouldn't try to play that aggressively against the big stack without a monster. KQ isn't quite the hand I'm looking for to make this move.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if you are forced to play this hand, WITH a raise a two bet will do just as much a a three...so id rather u just doubled it...

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't ever double the blind here. I like that less than raising to 300. He's calling with most hands for t300 but he's calling with any hand for t200 and he'd be correct to do so.

[yeau2]

I don't understand limping here, because normal, logical big stacks would now raise. If your going to fold to a raise, then save half the blind and fold immediatly, and take the coming hands where you'll be in position. Raise or fold (its a pretty clear raise, IMO).

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
overplaying in what sense. . .
as in he'll overbet when he catches any piece?
he'll call bets with any piece postflop?
he'll call preflop raises with a wide range and a big stack?


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, here's how he played AK earlier.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t1130)
UTG (t880)
UTG+1 (t760)
MP1 (t985)
MP2 (t985)
CO (t860)
Button (t900)
Hero (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t30, MP1 calls t30, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t150</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t135, BB calls t120, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t120.

Flop: (t630) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t400</font>, Hero folds, BB calls t400, BB calls t435.

Turn: (t1865) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

River: (t1865) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Final Pot: t1865

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has Ac 8c (one pair, eights).
MP1 has Td 9d (one pair, tens).
MP2 has Ah Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP2 wins t1865. </font>

He played other hands reckelssly and was playing a ton of pots.

As for the flop, my raise was pretty standard here. If I limp, he bets me off of it with any 2 cards.

For the turn, I'm pretty sure a check-raise all in was the play, since I'm sure he doesnt have AK here. My line was in hopes of keeping the pot small, but that was poor thinking against this opponent, since he'd shown no interest all game in keeping pots small.