$109s - AT Hand

[Unarmed]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t1000)
UTG (t1000)
UTG+1 (t1000)
UTG+2 (t1000)
Hero (t1000)
MP2 (t1000)
MP3 (t1000)
CO (t1000)
Button (t970)
SB (t1030)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t75) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t75</font>, UTG calls t75, Hero ?

[theordinaryboy]

i fold this.

Mainly because the pot is going to be big on the turn and hero has a vulnerable hand.

If for example, hero is actually ahead here, then any diamond, J,Q,K,6 scares hero. However, hero might not be ahead. BB could easily have a BB special T7, 75, T5. UTG's call probably represents a draw but could be an overpair or a set (altho utg is more likely to have raised here).

I believe this early on in the tourney this hand is too risky and vulnerable especially considering that the size of the pot will be 300 on the turn, if a brick comes bb bets 200 and utg and hero calls then the pot is 900 on the river if another brick comes then hero could well end up all-in.

The only other play i like is to raise on the flop, however, if hero gets called and one of those scare cards comes then hero has a tough decision to make.

I'd play it safe and fold.

[yid3655]

Unarmed why did you limp this? For me its a cert fold (im a $30 player), in a multiway pot i dont like this hand especially early on, if you hit the ace or ten (as happened) your in a tricky situation v early on with no reads and very little in the pot thats worth fighting for.

[Karak567]

What kind of flop are you looking for limping AT if not this one?

If you are playing for two-pair or better I do not think your implied odds in a 109 are good enough to make this limp +EV.

[Nicholasp27]

call me weak, but i fold this

i think bb has good shot at being ahead of u right now and utg may be drawing to a better hand than yours as well

it's not worth raising here and not worth calling 75 because unless u get another t on an ace, with no more dimes and no 8/9, u aren't feeling comfortable spending 25-100% of ur stack on this hand...so imo calling 75 here is just a waste of 75 chips...raising is a waste of 200+ chips since they will call or possibly reraise that

[Unarmed]

Oops, sorry guys. No PF debate please. I limp tons of stuff level 1 because my implied odds (yes even with AT) are huge, I'm able to get away relatively cheaply with second best hands, and I can often take the pot down without having much of anything.

But honestly, I just like to see flops. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[yid3655]

Nice one ta

[45suited]

I'd give this one up. This seems like a classic situation where you're either a bit ahead or way behind.

Unraised pot, level 1... I ain't going broke here and it costs too much to raise to see where you're at. BB could have any random two pair, straight draw, flush draw, etc. Plus, UTG's flat call concerns me. Between the two of them, one of them probably has a good draw, the other may already have you beat.

I don't mind limping AT here in a 1000 chip game so long as I'm able to get away from a flop like this. I'd fold.

[The Don]

At best the bettor has Q10 or something and the caller has a draw. The BB could have anything, and probably has something better than a pair of tens if he is betting OOP like that. I would fold.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
What kind of flop are you looking for limping AT if not this one?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO the problem isn't the flop, it's the suspicious and multiway action in front that is a problem. you either need to:

1. fold out of confusion because you have no idea where you are.

2. raise because you feel you're in a good spot. you do have tptk with position.

i favor the raise because it's so early in the tournament. in other words, these guys could be messing around with anything since you have no reads (as far as i know). my guess is that a healthy raise will clear out any flush draws, hopefully leaving you heads up with against a weaker T (or a monster, but i'll take that chance).

you're still in a tough spot on the turn, especially if a scary card comes, but there's a lot of blank turns too.

Not that I'm a particularly good player, but this definitely looks like a raise or fold situation. If you call, the two players behind you both have +EV on chasing the flush with two diamonds, or the straight with 4,6, 6,8, or 8,9.

[Maulik]

If I were going to continue with this hand, and it seems reasonable given there is already t225 in the pot, I'd raise pot.

This may seem terrible but the chance of taking down the pot right there should be good. You can certainly shutdown if its re-raised to you and continue w/ t760, which isn't terrible.

is this line terrible?

[bennies]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd give this one up. This seems like a classic situation where you're either a bit ahead or way behind.

Unraised pot, level 1... I ain't going broke here and it costs too much to raise to see where you're at. BB could have any random two pair, straight draw, flush draw, etc. Plus, UTG's flat call concerns me. Between the two of them, one of them probably has a good draw, the other may already have you beat.

I don't mind limping AT here in a 1000 chip game so long as I'm able to get away from a flop like this. I'd fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

[schwza]

i'd raise and fold to a push. too much of a chance you can get it heads up with a weaker T. i don't think utg is going to want to call a raise with a draw, but BB might with a worse made hand.

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]


Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t15,

[/ QUOTE ]

Boo.

Irieguy

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
Boo.


[/ QUOTE ]

Uh oh... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t15,

[/ QUOTE ]

Boo.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said.

I wonder if he can off his cut arbitrarily...

[Unarmed]

Bah. You old guys are weak/tight. /images/graemlins/grin.gif If I'm up against AQ/AJ thats fine, I have position on UTG and can chuck the AT if he gives action on an ace high flop. Is AJo a fold here as well? I hope not...

[lacky]

depend on who the limper is. If he's a psyco or really tight, I like being in that pot. The psyco will hand over his stack if you catch, and the tight guy will fold if he doesnt hit his set. But, if your up against a very predictable player, you may as well raise to isolate him. Doesnt take much, if you raise to 45 here, you take the lead in the hand, ussualy drive out the blinds and sometimes take it down preflop.

Steve

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd give this one up. This seems like a classic situation where you're either a bit ahead or way behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is completely wrong. What if bb has KT-JT, do you not consider that way ahead. WA/WB is something like KK on an AAXr board, where your opponent has 2 outs, or you have 2 outs.

In this hand, I would raise and think that I am ahead. I doubt bb potted with 2pr or a set, and I am sure he would raise JJ-AA pf. I think your hand is too vurnerable to wait until the turn and I think a raise here would pick up the pot.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
That is completely wrong. What if bb has KT-JT, do you not consider that way ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not up against just one opponent, you're up against two. One has made a pot sized bet, the other has called it. No offense but I think that it's kind of ridiculous to say that I am "completely wrong". Between the two of them, it's likely that one has a good draw, the other has a made hand. You MAY be currently ahead of the made hand, you may not be. There are also a gazillion cards that might hurt you on the turn, but only 5 cards that will strengthen your hand.

To hope that the best hand that is out there is KT-JT and then to get sucked into this hand further seems like wishful thinking to me.

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]
depend on who the limper is. If he's a psyco or really tight, I like being in that pot. The psyco will hand over his stack if you catch, and the tight guy will fold if he doesnt hit his set. But, if your up against a very predictable player, you may as well raise to isolate him. Doesnt take much, if you raise to 45 here, you take the lead in the hand, ussualy drive out the blinds and sometimes take it down preflop.

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to have to call BS on Lacky here. There's no way you play AT from up front against an UTG limper at a full no limit table... even if he is really psycho or tight. This is an easy muck for you in a ring game, a SNG, a multi, or a live tourney.

You are just trying to slow down Unarmed's learning curve so you can win the STTF-HUC II in February.

Irieguy

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Bah. You old guys are weak/tight. /images/graemlins/grin.gif If I'm up against AQ/AJ thats fine, I have position on UTG and can chuck the AT if he gives action on an ace high flop. Is AJo a fold here as well? I hope not...

[/ QUOTE ]

It sure ain't a limp.

[adanthar]

Yeah, I chuck this here (might be worth a button limp against a known idiot). AJ would be marginal but probably not worth it if you &gt; 2 table. It doesn't matter enough to have a 40 post debate over it, though.

On the flop, UTG has nothing worth mentioning so I'm either seeing a turn or raising now. I guess my default would be to raise but I'm not super happy about it.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd give this one up. This seems like a classic situation where you're either a bit ahead or way behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is completely wrong. What if bb has KT-JT, do you not consider that way ahead. WA/WB is something like KK on an AAXr board, where your opponent has 2 outs, or you have 2 outs.

In this hand, I would raise and think that I am ahead. I doubt bb potted with 2pr or a set, and I am sure he would raise JJ-AA pf. I think your hand is too vurnerable to wait until the turn and I think a raise here would pick up the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that the BB is the primary worry here, but he easily could be. I commonly bet out two pair here on a somewhat draw-heavy board here, although that is at $215. There are players tricky enough do do the same here, and while I agree a raise could be good here, what if you get reraised allin? I suppose you could say it's an easy dump, but as far as I'm concerned, after I brutalized the PF, i'd slink away and not get involved in a huge pot that I likely need to catch in or dodge a lot of outs to win.

[Unarmed]

So I raise here or fold here, but limping is no good.
Ok, that makes sense. I'm just into seeing flops with whatever on level 1 because it costs next to nothing and the play is so terrible. However, a multiway flop isn't exactly fun times for AT, as this hand so nicely illustrates.

Flop Action:

I raised to pot. (too little?) If I was closing the action, I'd prefer to call and keep the pot small. Also, I'd really like to peel off the turn before I commmit a large chunk of my stack with TPTK. But in this exact spot, I hate calling because then the other two to act behind me are getting 23523422-1 odds to come along for the ride. I certainly considered folding, and would have two weeks ago. However, this is new and improved aggro-Unarmed and I don't make these laydowns on level 1 anymore. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

More Flop Action:

CO calls the 225, BB goes all-in, and UTG folds. Oops. Easy fold? What if CO had folded to the 225 and BB pushed?

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think that the BB is the primary worry here, but he easily could be. I commonly bet out two pair here on a somewhat draw-heavy board here, although that is at $215. There are players tricky enough do do the same here, and while I agree a raise could be good here, what if you get reraised allin?

[/ QUOTE ]

Looking at *just* the flop, UTG is not our primary worry here - not at all - because if he had AA-JJ, if he didn't pop PF he would certainly pop this flop. If he's got 98 or a flush draw, we will be able to tell, because he'll overcall our raise one more time and we can chase him out on the turn, but odds are this is something like 99 or T9/some other weirdness and you are good right now almost all the time.

BB is the primary worry, because you'll find loads of people playing any ten, 75, 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, etc. this way. Additionally, a raise is not a great way to put him on a hand because there's no telling whether he will push or call with any of that range. In that spot, I think I like a raise/fold best, but like I said I'm not thrilled about it, and I think you can make a case for calling and pushing/raising on a safe turn.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
So I raise here or fold here, but limping is no good.
Ok, that makes sense. I'm just into seeing flops with whatever on level 1 because it costs next to nothing and the play is so terrible. However, a multiway flop isn't exactly fun times for AT, as this hand so nicely illustrates.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. If you want to limp more hands play some 86s or whatever rather then A10o.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
I like a raise/fold best, but like I said I'm not thrilled about it, and I think you can make a case for calling and pushing/raising on a safe turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, this was the big decision for me in the hand. (see previous post) If I'm closing the action, I like a call. With two to act behind me? Hmmmm...

[lacky]

actually I'm just so busy trying to fix my damn air conditioner before I fly out again tomarrow I didn't read the OP very closely. Yeah, MP1 is pretty early to try and isolate and control the table, MP3 or preferably later makes much more sense. See how much easier it is to just keep my mouth shut!

Steve

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
See how much easier it is to just keep my mouth shut!


[/ QUOTE ]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! Keep the posts coming please! Don't listen to Irie he's just bitter because you made him look like a little girl at STT-HUC. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like a raise/fold best, but like I said I'm not thrilled about it, and I think you can make a case for calling and pushing/raising on a safe turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, this was the big decision for me in the hand. (see previous post) If I'm closing the action, I like a call. With two to act behind me? Hmmmm...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not thrilled about this hand either, but I'm definately not dumping it. What about a min-raise? (fairly) cheap, should define the hand pretty well and you can always check behind on a scary turn and fold to a big river bet if you think somebody has beat you on either of those cards. You can also easily dump to a re-pop on the flop.

I have not posted any hands like this myself, and i'm a little suprised that you did, a lot of the 33 players are probably scratching their heads...'i thought this guy was good?' /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
I have not posted any hands like this myself, and i'm a little suprised that you did, a lot of the 33 players are probably scratching their heads...'i thought this guy was good?' /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a 55 player and I'm scratching my head.

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have not posted any hands like this myself, and i'm a little suprised that you did, a lot of the 33 players are probably scratching their heads...'i thought this guy was good?' /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a 55 player and I'm scratching my head.

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
depend on who the limper is. If he's a psyco or really tight, I like being in that pot. The psyco will hand over his stack if you catch, and the tight guy will fold if he doesnt hit his set. But, if your up against a very predictable player, you may as well raise to isolate him. Doesnt take much, if you raise to 45 here, you take the lead in the hand, ussualy drive out the blinds and sometimes take it down preflop.

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

further evidence of why lacky is a big pimp, and why the 2+2 weak-tight early, push anything late strategy works less and less the higher you go...

[Unarmed]

Ok no one wants to comment. FINE! /images/graemlins/grin.gif
I, of course, folded to BB's set/two pair/massive draw.
Oh wait, he had JTo. CO had 89o.

Further supporting the theory that one should never lay down TPTK on level 1 to any action. Period. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok no one wants to comment. FINE! /images/graemlins/grin.gif
I, of course, folded to BB's set/two pair/massive draw.
Oh wait, he had JTo. CO had 89o.

Further supporting the theory that one should never lay down TPTK on level 1 to any action. Period. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This really is a horrible flop fold; what flop were you looking for when you called preflop?

Unfortunately the stacks are not deep enough for you to profitably protect your hand against two opponents, so I would call and hope a non diamond comes on the turn. If you had the A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif I would raise.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok no one wants to comment. FINE! /images/graemlins/grin.gif
I, of course, folded to BB's set/two pair/massive draw.
Oh wait, he had JTo. CO had 89o.

Further supporting the theory that one should never lay down TPTK on level 1 to any action. Period. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This really is a horrible flop fold; what flop were you looking for when you called preflop?

Unfortunately the stacks are not deep enough for you to profitably protect your hand against two opponents, so I would call and hope a non diamond comes on the turn. If you had the A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif I would raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

shouldn't you be more comfortable just calling if it's less likely a flush draw is out?

[45suited]

I still like the fold.

Either I'm not being results oriented or I'm just stubborn. But I still don't see any need to get sucked into that hand at that point in the game.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
I still like the fold.

Either I'm not being results oriented or I'm just stubborn. But I still don't see any need to get sucked into that hand at that point in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same. I mean, you have 15 chips invested. It's not like it hurts you much to fold and I'd think *usually* with this kind of action in a 109, you're up against that set/2 pair/massive draw.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

shouldn't you be more comfortable just calling if it's less likely a flush draw is out?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the thing is that if a diamond comes off on the turn I know that I have outs on the river if I am behind so I'm more comfortable playing a big pot. But I don't mind calling either.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok no one wants to comment. FINE! /images/graemlins/grin.gif
I, of course, folded to BB's set/two pair/massive draw.
Oh wait, he had JTo. CO had 89o.

Further supporting the theory that one should never lay down TPTK on level 1 to any action. Period. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This really is a horrible flop fold; what flop were you looking for when you called preflop?


[/ QUOTE ]
Wait.
You do know the action went like this right: (see my post halfway up the page if you want my thoughts on the initial flop play... actually f*ck here you go)

[ QUOTE ]

I raised to pot. (too little?) If I was closing the action, I'd prefer to call and keep the pot small. Also, I'd really like to peel off the turn before I commmit a large chunk of my stack with TPTK. But in this exact spot, I hate calling because then the other two to act behind me are getting 23523422-1 odds to come along for the ride. I certainly considered folding, and would have two weeks ago. However, this is new and improved aggro-Unarmed and I don't make these laydowns on level 1 anymore.


[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t1000)
UTG (t1000)
UTG+1 (t1000)
UTG+2 (t1000)
Hero (t1000)
MP2 (t1000)
MP3 (t1000)
CO (t1000)
Button (t970)
SB (t1030)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t75) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t75</font>, UTG calls t75, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t225</font>, CO calls t225, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t745 (All-In)</font>, UTG folds, Hero folds

I'm raising here. No doubt about it. And it ends the discussion also b/c you know where you are in the hand. Not to mention a raise also will probably get you a free card on the turn if no diamond hits.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok no one wants to comment. FINE! /images/graemlins/grin.gif
I, of course, folded to BB's set/two pair/massive draw.
Oh wait, he had JTo. CO had 89o.

Further supporting the theory that one should never lay down TPTK on level 1 to any action. Period. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This really is a horrible flop fold; what flop were you looking for when you called preflop?

Unfortunately the stacks are not deep enough for you to profitably protect your hand against two opponents, so I would call and hope a non diamond comes on the turn. If you had the A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif I would raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disregard this post, because I managed to completely not see this post:

[ QUOTE ]
So I raise here or fold here, but limping is no good.
Ok, that makes sense. I'm just into seeing flops with whatever on level 1 because it costs next to nothing and the play is so terrible. However, a multiway flop isn't exactly fun times for AT, as this hand so nicely illustrates.

Flop Action:

I raised to pot. (too little?) If I was closing the action, I'd prefer to call and keep the pot small. Also, I'd really like to peel off the turn before I commmit a large chunk of my stack with TPTK. But in this exact spot, I hate calling because then the other two to act behind me are getting 23523422-1 odds to come along for the ride. I certainly considered folding, and would have two weeks ago. However, this is new and improved aggro-Unarmed and I don't make these laydowns on level 1 anymore.

More Flop Action:

CO calls the 225, BB goes all-in, and UTG folds. Oops. Easy fold? What if CO had folded to the 225 and BB pushed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, this is why I like just calling the flop and seeing if a diamond hits the turn.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm raising here. No doubt about it. And it ends the discussion also b/c you know where you are in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn, I hate raising with a weak made hand, on a multi way, draw heavy board in an unraised pot just to find out where I'm at. Especially after a pot sized bet and a call on the flop.

225 chips seems like a lot to pay to find out where you're at...

[Unarmed]

I don't want to find out where I am, I want to shut out the two guys to act behind me. Like I said, if I'm last to act, this is a very easy call for me. Is it still a call even with the other two guys there?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want to find out where I am, I want to shut out the two guys to act behind me. Like I said, if I'm last to act, this is a very easy call for me. Is it still a call even with the other two guys there?

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that it reopens the betting from the BB and it costs you too much of your stack to shut out the other guys.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is that it reopens the betting from the BB

[/ QUOTE ]

How often does BB push a hand that I beat here? In my experience draws and weak Ts normally flat call that raise. Meh, maybe I just put to much importance on the other guys in the hand.

Well unfortunately that's your punishment for even playing the hand to begin with and getting caught up in this. But that's besides the point. Raise here, maybe take it down right there...doubtful but wishful thinking. No diamond hits on turn, it's likely to be checked, and now your in a whole different type of mess. You can either give a free card to see if u can catch your ace, or maybe 3 of a kind. Doubt ur shutting anyone out without pushing all ur chips in the middle though.

[45suited]

I know that you were not raising for that reason, I was responding to the logic of raising to find out where you're at.

The problem is that precisely what happened is liable to happen. Think about what hands you would pot bet from the BB here. (He had an OESD, right?) I know that if I pot bet from the BB and faced a raise, I could easily have a hand that I could push as well. I suspect that the same is true for you.

To answer your question, if I were last to act, I would have called here. People can call me weak-tight, but you were not closing the action and your hand just wasn't all that strong multi-way when there a gazillion turn cards that can beat you if you are currently ahead.

But I guess that's just my L1 mindset. I understand that other winning players think differently, and I'm never one to claim that there is only one "correct" way to play.

[Unarmed]

BB had JT.
CO had the OESD.

I know what I'd do with a strong draw from the BB there, but thats irrelevent. Most players do not 3-bet their draws allin from the blinds. Or am I mistaken there? Adanthar?

just out of curiousity now, how did u wind up playing the hand and what was the outcome?

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
Well unfortunately that's your punishment for even playing the hand to begin with and getting caught up in this. But that's besides the point. Raise here, maybe take it down right there...doubtful but wishful thinking. No diamond hits on turn, it's likely to be checked, and now your in a whole different type of mess. You can either give a free card to see if u can catch your ace, or maybe 3 of a kind. Doubt ur shutting anyone out without pushing all ur chips in the middle though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? What mess? Why do I need a free card? Why do I want to shut anyone out? If I raise, get one or two callers, the turn blanks, and its checked to me, I will happily put my stack in the middle.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

Huh? What mess? Why do I need a free card? Why do I want to shut anyone out? If I raise, get one or two callers, the turn blanks, and its checked to me, I will happily put my stack in the middle.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why my favorite way to slowplay monsters is to bet the flop, call a raise and check the turn...

[45suited]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I know with any kind of certainty what BB has. But if he has the stones to play JT here the way that he did, more power to him.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Huh? What mess? Why do I need a free card? Why do I want to shut anyone out? If I raise, get one or two callers, the turn blanks, and its checked to me, I will happily put my stack in the middle.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why my favorite way to slowplay monsters is to bet the flop, call a raise and check the turn...

[/ QUOTE ]

On this board, there are exactly zero hands you should be playing that way.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
That's why my favorite way to slowplay monsters is to bet the flop, call a raise and check the turn...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Durron, we agree completely on something! I love this play, it looks SO weak. Against many players, you stack 'em right on the turn. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

But I agree with Unarmed, this would not be the board to do it on.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

On this board, there are exactly zero hands you should be playing that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I have 77 with the 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif I am playing it that way. any other set if I get raised I push over the top on this board.

Edit: GAH I forgot which two cards were the flush cards...

[Unarmed]

T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif is on the board.
I officially hate this thread.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif is on the board.
I officially hate this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate myself for being bad at reading. That's twice in 1 thread.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif is on the board.
I officially hate this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

UA, there was nothing wrong with folding. Be done...

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t1000)
UTG (t1000)
UTG+1 (t1000)
UTG+2 (t1000)
Hero (t1000)
MP2 (t1000)
MP3 (t1000)
CO (t1000)
Button (t970)
SB (t1030)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t75) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t75</font>, UTG calls t75, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t225</font>, CO calls t225, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t745 (All-In)</font>, UTG folds, Hero folds

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the board being two-suited here really hurts you since your raise can be interpreted as a draw trying to get rid of the others.

But strangely played if he has JT anyway. His cojones simply were the biggest. /images/graemlins/wink.gif