Philosophical questions

I can't think of one philisophical question. Let me explain.
Does God exist?No physical evidence,so no.
If there's no invisible man, the question of good and evil, right and wrong go out the window. Right and wrong is a totally subjective thing, and good and evil are related to a God that there's no reason to even pose the question if he exists or not.

The only other philosophical like questions I can think of are related to existence, and I'm pretty sure a physical self exist.

Are there any other phioshical questions that I'm missing??
I'd really like to know. I really like thinking about philosophical things, but I can't think of any more, which means that philosophy might just be a bunch of meaningless questions.

Shooby

[chezlaw]

knowledge
logic
personal identity
consciouness

a few to get you started


chez

Knowledge isn't philosophical(facts just are). Neither is logic, something is either logical or it's not, just like math. Consciousness is just a by product of the way our brain works, and even though we don't understand it at all, eventually questions of the mind will be referred to the neurologist,and not the psychologist, seeing that it's just a physical system.

And personal identity, I'm not really sure what you mean by that. Please elaborate.
Shooby

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
Knowledge isn't philosophical(facts just are). Neither is logic, something is either logical or it's not, just like math. Consciousness is just a by product of the way our brain works, and even though we don't understand it at all, eventually questions of the mind will be referred to the neurologist,and not the psychologist, seeing that it's just a physical system.

And personal identity, I'm not really sure what you mean by that. Please elaborate.
Shooby

[/ QUOTE ]

A bit dismissive /images/graemlins/smile.gif

What do you know? How do you deal with the skeptical claim that knowledge is impossible (with exceptions depending on the type of skepticism)

Logic is a tad more complicated than you seem to think. What is logic? what constitutes a logic?

Justify the claim that consciousness is just a phyiscal system. How do you explain the experience of pain?

Personal identity - what makes you the same person as the person you recall from 10 years ago? The topic is normally introduced by considering some blacksmiths hammer that he has had for many years. He has replaced the handle and the head many times - is it the same hammer?

chez

[BluffTHIS!]

Shooby, have you ever read a Philosophy 101 text?

[RJT]

I don’t think it is a matter of the questions being meaningless, rather that the answers usually are.

Ok.
First, knowledge being impossible, I'm not even sure what you're getting at.

Second, I realize that logic is just like everything else, subjective(depends on what logic syestem you subscribe to. But math as logic is objective though). But subjective things seem worthless to me. The only thing that really has any weight with me is physics, because it's based on completely observable phenomena.

Ahh, and consciousness. I think alot,(most), people think that consciousness is some special thing that seperates human beings from everything else. In reality, it's just a product of the way our brain works.
In fact, except for my atoms interaction with each other, the person that is me doesn't really exist. What I mean is that I'm just the same as a rock, my atoms just move differently. My sense of self is just a product of evolution. At one point, those of us who had a senso of self, realizing that we are( sort of) survived and produced more.

Pain is just a chemical reaction.

And the hammer thing. Am I the same person I was 10 years ago. Nope. My atoms are different atoms, I'm not the same bunch of atoms at all. If you could teleport people like in star trek, having the computer memorize where the atoms are, then configuring other atoms into the same structure on the other side, in essence, you would be murdering the first guy, and making a replica.

Shooby.

[Georgia Avenue]

[ QUOTE ]
Are there any other philosophical questions that I'm missing??

[/ QUOTE ]

[chezlaw]

Ok problems solved, nice one /images/graemlins/smile.gif Seriously if you read up on these things a bit you'll find its not that simple, you might find some of it interesting, and unlike metaphysics the answers have plenty of meaning and even <gasp> applications.

[ QUOTE ]
And the hammer thing. Am I the same person I was 10 years ago. Nope. My atoms are different atoms, I'm not the same bunch of atoms at all. If you could teleport people like in star trek, having the computer memorize where the atoms are, then configuring other atoms into the same structure on the other side, in essence, you would be murdering the first guy, and making a replica.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, so so if a murderer is caught ten years later you wont punish him because you wouldn't punish someone for another persons crime. What about 5 minutes after the act?

chez

[ QUOTE ]
Ahh, and consciousness. I think alot,(most), people think that consciousness is some special thing that seperates human beings from everything else. In reality, it's just a product of the way our brain works.

[/ QUOTE ]
So is shitting. How is consciousness different from shitting?

nice little conundrum I just created by asking that question.lol. I'll be stuck in this feedback loop forever now. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Shooby /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm pretty sure it really is that simple.

And the punishment thing. The reason that we put people in prison is to protect ourselves from their so called "bad" behavior. If there was another way, it would be better, because since we're just physical systems, each atom reacting to every other atom, you shouldn't really hold the clump of atoms responsible for it's movements. It can't help itself. Although the people who imprison the felon don't have a choice either, being that that's how the atoms express themselves.
No right,no wrong,just the way it is.
Shooby

In essence, it's not.
Shooby

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason that we put people in prison is to protect ourselves from their so called "bad" behavior.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who's bad behavior and how do we decide who to punish? If you're right then we can only protect others and that would be pointless because they wouldn't survive very long anyway?

chez

There isn't really any "wrong" behavior per se, just behavior that strays from the accepted norm. And whoever is the recognized person in charge decides, the alpha male if you will.

And you've lost me on this next sentence. Please explain:

"If you're right then we can only protect others and that would be pointless because they wouldn't survive very long anyway?"

What are you saying in this last question of yours?
Shooby

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
And you've lost me on this next sentence. Please explain:

"If you're right then we can only protect others and that would be pointless because they wouldn't survive very long anyway?"

Shooby

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're right then you can't protect yourself because you're just about to cease to exist. You can protect the person you will become but that's someone else.

chez

There's a big discrepency between physical reality, and the way our brains function to handle the environment.

You said "If you're right then you can't protect yourself because you're just about to cease to exist. You can protect the person you will become but that's someone else.

Ok, imagine this. A guy commits a murder. Then a neurosurgeon performs an operation that makes the guys brain different, making him like a totally different human being. He'd still be punished, even though he's a different person. The other humans still recognize him as the one, even though he's a different person.

Another criminal murders someone. He doesn't have any surgery, instaead all of his atoms are replaced with other atoms arranged in the same way, so that he appears to be the same guy, but in fact he's a replica. He's still be punished. Both guys are different people, both are punished.
Both guys are differnt people, but the other blobs of atoms(the other humans) recognize them as the felon) It's just the way our brains work. Like I said,

There's a big discrepency between physical reality, and the way our brains function to handle the environment.

Shooby

"Have you stopped beating your wife?"

That's ok. You think I'm off my rocker or something.
I'm only explaining how it "really" is. But I can't control your neurons. Not that these things really matter in real life, but it's what I'm good at.
Anyways.
Shooby

[chezlaw]

So do you advocate punishing innocent people even though it doesn't protect yourself or anyone you care about, or should we abolish the justice system?

or do you believe nothing matters?

chez

[ QUOTE ]
That's ok. You think I'm off my rocker or something.
I'm only explaining how it "really" is. But I can't control your neurons. Not that these things really matter in real life, but it's what I'm good at.
Anyways.
Shooby

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all, i was addressing a philosophical paradox by asking the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" i was responding the original post about any and all philosophical questions. So how do you answer my question?

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's ok. You think I'm off my rocker or something.
I'm only explaining how it "really" is. But I can't control your neurons. Not that these things really matter in real life, but it's what I'm good at.
Anyways.
Shooby

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all, i was addressing a philosophical paradox by asking the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" i was responding the original post about any and all philosophical questions. So how do you answer my question?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not any sort of paradox. The answer is no unless you used to beat you wife and have now stopped.

chez

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's ok. You think I'm off my rocker or something.
I'm only explaining how it "really" is. But I can't control your neurons. Not that these things really matter in real life, but it's what I'm good at.
Anyways.
Shooby

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all, i was addressing a philosophical paradox by asking the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" i was responding the original post about any and all philosophical questions. So how do you answer my question?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not any sort of paradox. The answer is no unless you used to beat you wife and have now stopped.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

Horned Man Paradox (http://www.iep.utm.edu/p/par-log.htm)

In my reality, when you get down to it, it doesn't matter.
The emotional part of me is screaming"of course it matters"
but I try not to rely on that part of my brain for answers.
What does it really matter what all the bunches of atoms do to each other. But of course our neural pathways aren't built like that.
Shooby

It is a paradox. If you never beat her, how can you answer.
You can't stop something you never sstarted. I think this is what you mean at least. Is that what you mean?
Shooby

[ QUOTE ]
It is a paradox. If you never beat her, how can you answer.
You can't stop something you never sstarted. I think this is what you mean at least. Is that what you mean?
Shooby

[/ QUOTE ]

correctamundo

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
It is a paradox. If you never beat her, how can you answer.
You can't stop something you never sstarted. I think this is what you mean at least. Is that what you mean?
Shooby

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't stop, you haven't stopped and the answer must be no.

It is listed on the website as a contradiction, so I apologise for saying it wasn't. I thought a paradox had to do more than just cause a bit of confusion.

chez

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
In my reality, when you get down to it, it doesn't matter.
The emotional part of me is screaming"of course it matters"
but I try not to rely on that part of my brain for answers.
What does it really matter what all the bunches of atoms do to each other. But of course our neural pathways aren't built like that.
Shooby

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, had a nap and I'm back and I claim it is me. Are you still you?

You believe that because the atoms that make me up have changed I am a diferent person to the extent I'm not even responsible for my (or what I think of as my past self) past actions . Good because then it wasn't me who was a bit rude about that paradox thing and I don't have to say 'sorry I was a bit tired'

You believe this is a rational belief. So tell me why its rational - what makes you think all that matters is the same matter. I have a lot in common with my 3 hour ago self. David Sklansky has a lot in common with the author (or many authors in your view) of Theory of Poker.

Make the case that your view is correct and that the way the matter is organised has no impact on personal identity? Why should it make any difference if one electron is replaced with another?


chez

[siegfriedandroy]

God does not exist because there is no physical evidence? What type of physical evidence do you desire? Shooby, you are an f*cking genius.

Yeh, I was also tired. Ok, here we go.
We are essentially an organic computer.By organic, I mean it can replicate itself(fix itself.)
Imagine a pc that has our attributes. It can communicate, remember things, make observations based on past experience,
it can tell that it's being touched by heat sensors, it can hear,etc.
It's a computer that somehow stumbled upon the idea that it's a computer. It is conscious of it's own existence.

Since it's an organic computer, when it becomes damaged, it fixes itself by replacing the damaged part (let's say it does this by gathering needed atoms from it's environment.)

Over a year,it replaces all of it's parts with new ones. Is it the same computer? Nope. It's a different computer that occupies the same space. But it recognizes itself as the same computer. It's running the exact same programs it was a year before, it has the same ifo in it's database (memories)and all the computers it's networked with recognize it as the same computer, but it's not.

Now the punishment thing. One day the computer gets a bug. It sends an email to another computer, and the bug screws up the other computer beyond repair. It was murdered.
And the computer that was the one who sent the email, it was destroyed. Should a computer with a bug be punished for it's actions?

Shooby

I say Superman exists. I think I have proof. I found all these books that tell his whole life story. You say"Yeh, but those are only stories, do you have any proof that this Superman exists?"

And I say "Superman does not exist because there is no physical evidence? What type of physical evidence do you desire? siegfriedandroy, you are an f*cking genius. "

Shooby

[chezlaw]

I think you've made the same claim again but you haven't explained why your belief is rational. Lets stick to people.

I am a complex arrangement of particles. Why do you think that for me to remain the same person I need to keep the same particles? Maybe what makes me me is the way the particles are organised. Can you justify your belief?

chez

[m1illion]

Is there any merit in investigating why we exist?
trying to determine if we are say, a highly improbable anamoly, an experiment of some other lifeform, or is there another explanation?

[ QUOTE ]
God does not exist because there is no physical evidence? What type of physical evidence do you desire? Shooby, you are an f*cking genius.

[/ QUOTE ]

"There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dare not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed. " -- Bertrand Russell

[benkahuna]

free will
meaning
what is consciousness?

There are plenty of philosophical questions that you will find inadequately solved to your satisfaction.

I've already figured out these 3.
Free will, no such thing. I have no control over what I do. The atoms of my body react to each other and the outside environment completely outside of my control.

Meaning- totally subjective. Depends on the individual.

Consciousness-a byproduct of the way our brains work.

Shooby

[AleoMagus]

It is plausible that no particles in the universe are ever in the same location from moment to moment. I think a fairly decent argument could be made for the fact that we aren't even the same person in your sense from one second to the next, let alone in ten year intervals.

In fact maybe nothing is the same thing in your sense from one moment to the next.

As another poster pointed out, the particles are not what matter. What matters in the way in which these particles are organized. And sure, that changes too, but there still is a kind of continuity to the changes in this organization that allow us to keep identifying a person or object as a specific entity even over a long term.

Regards
Brad S