Explain Sklansky quote in TOP

[ZeusXIX]

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"In no limit hold'em it is generally correct to slowplay in early position with aces or kings." Sklansky, p. 64

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This seems counter to the advice of almost all experts and professionals. I was surprised to read this. Can anybody explain.

Zeus XIX

[badluckal]

With Aces or Kings, there is little or no chance of overcards coming to beat you when you slowplay. Since in NLHE the reward for trapping with a big hand is often much greater than in LHE, and since an EP raise will often do little more than win the blinds, slowplaying is often correct.

[diebitter]

With these two hands, any serious raising risks you only winning the blinds. So best to call or minraise (depending on table structure etc).

You want to bet whatever usually results in 1 or 2 callers. You want callers with AA/KK, cos you're a clear favourite.

[CCovington]

But the Matador said to never slowplay aces or kings, because they are so hard to get away from.
/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[kitaristi0]

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This seems counter to the advice of almost all experts and professionals.

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I believe Doyle also recommended this play in SS.

[diebitter]

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But the Matador said to never slowplay aces or kings, because they are so hard to get away from.
/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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Depends - if Mr Tight all-ins post-flop, I can lay em down no problem. An ace on the flop, lay down the KK no problem if bet into.
If Mr Loose goes all-in, then it's all in for you, and probably a win for ya without improvement 80% of the time.

Of course, on some tables you can all-in even UTG and some donk (even 2) will often call

[CCovington]

It was a joke...from "tilt"

I've not read TOP (I promise guys, I will) however, Mr. Sklansky will probably read this and elaborate. In SS Doyle advises limping in from early position with AA or KK. The purpose of this is to reraise when somebody raises behind you, thus isolating the player and having a huge advantage doing so. I would imagine that is what Mr. Sklansky is talking about. That's how I play them, and it has worked for me. If I'm in a passive game, I will raise with them in early position if I'm sure nobody will raise behind me (rare, but I have played in such games). I would imagine, though, that he will clarify his point.

[Onaflag]

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Mr. Sklansky will probably read this and elaborate.

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No chance. He's too busy right now trying to get laid (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=3337139&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1) .

Onaflag...........

[tek]

Geez, now I have to shake that mental image of Sklansky "closing the deal". /images/graemlins/mad.gif

As far as AA and KK go, not raising preflop means you risk someone making two pair or trips on you. If you can let them go when that happens then you can slowplay them and build a pot.

I think it really depends on the limits. At medium to high stakes, you can expect players to make the correct lay downs. At small stakes, when they'll play anything for the minimum, I think you have to raise.

I play mostly small stakes - all my bankroll allows right now. I know that when I raise AA pf, I lose less often post flop.

[GeniusToad]

With loose players behind I'd slow play and hope to reraise. With tight players behind I'd raise and hope to get at least one if not two calls, probably from the blinds. After that it all depends on how solid your post flop play is. AA and KK are easy to play pre flop but get real tough post flop, especially with scare cards. I think both Brunson and Sklansky will tell you they'd never play them the same way every time and neither one of their books suggest that.

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Can anybody explain.


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"Generally correct" is one thing, but be wary when people say "always" and "never" in poker.

Poker is a situational game. A perfect strategy for one situation may be a disasterous strategy for another.

If you read and re-read Sklansky's works enough, you will note that he generally gears his writing toward relatively tight aggressive games. Hence, in relatively tight, aggressive games, slow play of AA and KK is generally correct.

But let's look at some situations where it is not correct.

- You are short stacked relative to the blinds/antes. Might as well get your stuff in there.

- There are lots of loose aggressive opponents, with a lot of preflop raising and re-raising. Might as well fire away.

- There are a lot of players playing loosely with small and middle pairs, usually calling preflop raises. Might as well fire away.

As many people have pointed out in related posts over time, big pairs are subject to reverse implied odds.

So let's say you hold AhAd, slow play, thereby letting one or two late position players in cheap and let the blinds in virtually for free.

Now the flop comes out something like:
4c5d6c or
4s5s5c or
TJQ or

any number of similar types of flops.

Now all of the sudden your AA doesn't look nearly so unbeatable. You may only be slightly ahead or even way behind.

If there is any chance at all that you are behind, then you have to consider the fact that you may only be drawing to 2 outs, as opposed to having a player dominated.

Even AA versus a 4-straight or 4-flush is virtually even money. For example, you have the AA and get lucky enough to be against a single opponent who calls in the BB with KcQc. Now the flop comes 2c3cQh. Your Aces have gone from being a
4-1 preflop favorite to literal dead heat 50/50.

If the BB has a bigger stack than you, there is a very good chance that an all-in bet from him (value betting top pair and flush draw) will push you off the pot. If he does go all in, and you aren't considering letting your Aces go, then perhaps you may not be thinking the hand all the way through.