open-ended 4-straight for MAD action??

[DiamondDave]

3/6 game, fairly loose, too much calling, some decent players at the table.

7 people are in with no raising, and I'm on the button with Jh4c. This game has a button charge, so I call and see the flop for 1 chip (=1/6 BB). I call with any two cards in this spot (as long as I don't anticipate a raise from the blinds). The general plan is to either flop something nice or fold to any bet on the flop. Being in the pot (if only for a little while) helps disguise my tightness, and I'm getting decent implied odds.

Anyway, the flop is KQT with two clubs. Loose aggressive EP bets, everybody calls, tight & very aggressive player two seats to my right raises. Ick. No way this guy has anything less than top two pair or two high clubs. I call. EP calls, MP reraises (!), one fold, and the TA player caps it.

What do I do here?

[Homer]

I think you should have folded to the tight-aggressive player's initial raise on the flop. Failing that, you should fold to the four-bet.

Unless you play well postflop you should fold the trashiest of hands even though it is so cheap to come in.

-- Homer

[travisand]

I would fold it on the flop for the initial raise, and then strongly consider folding it when it comes back capped. Though you probably do have the odds to call it but there is a good chance that some of you Ace outs are gone and you might be drawing to a chop.

[Ulysses]

You toss a chip in w/ J4 hoping to flop two pair or trips. Fold to the flop two-bet.

You could easily be up against a made straight. You could make the low end of your straight and pay off the nuts all the way. You could make either end and chop. Even if you make nut straight on the turn, you can still lose to flush or full house redraws.

Perhaps you thought about all that between the time you called the initial two bets and it came back to you capped.

[Bob T.]

You could already be drawing dead to two outs to a chop, with a club redraw against you. You do have a 1 card outside straight, but I think you fold it when it is two bets to you on the flop. Very few good things could happen, and a lot of bad things could happen. Keep your investment down to a dollar. After you call the first two bets, I guess it is in for a penny, in for a pound.

[DiamondDave]

I would have folded to a raise on the flop if the raiser had been playing weak-tight. I called his raise because he was a raise-or-fold type of guy, I could see him raising in that spot with something like KQ or TT, and other people were ready to call and make a huge pot.

But I knew things were bad for me when he guy re-raised a checkraiser. Being aggressive is one thing, but reraising a checkraiser in a multiway pot with a board like that is another! I folded.

The turn was A /forums/images/icons/heart.gif, which would have given me the high straight. The check-raiser and the reraiser capped it. Someone else actually stayed in for the river (probably hoping to pull a flush), and a couple of people actually called the first turn bet before folding!

The river was a club that didn't pair the board. The three of them went three bets, and the reraiser showed down A /forums/images/icons/club.gif J /forums/images/icons/club.gif for the nut flush that used to be the nut straight!

Thanks to the four of you who posted your thoughts on the situation. I lost one full bet more than I needed, but I'm glad I managed to avoid the fate that would have been mine had I seen the turn.

[Ulysses]

In my initial respoonse, I said I hoped you thought about all the bad possibiliites between the time you called the two bets and it came back to you capped. Good job not falling in love with your draw and feeling the need to compound a bad call. That saved you at least 5BB, and possibly as many as 8BB, depending on how the river action went. Nice fold!