Is it ever worth doing this in the $11s, $22s or $33s?

[lem45216]

Evening all.

I was just wondering, on whether in your opinions, it is ever worth limping in with AA or KK in the $11s, $22s, $33s, maybe even $55s, who knows? I can think that maybe, if you get AA or KK 2 or 3 times in one sng, and raise it to say 3BB the first 2 times, you might want to limp in the 3rd time to mix it up. But do you think mixing it up like this is any extra ev in the longrun? Is it any less? Should i just be raising every AA and KK pf as a value bet? Your opinions please.
Thanks!
Jaffa

[Hornacek]

HoH says to mix it in... esp from early position, I think he said 80% raises, 20% limps. This is for real games though.

Limping is not horrible once in a while, as long as you can get away when a bad board comes, or know that once in a while you're letting mediocre hands see flops cheaply and you may have cost yourself some chips.

[kevstreet]

You're asking for trouble limping w/ Aces in the early rounds of a STT. In the later rounds, when 3 handed, I've limped if I've gotten a read on the BB and think he'll play back at me.

[splashpot]

If you're lucky to get AA 3 times in one SNG, by the third time, the blinds will probably be very large. Which means people will be looser. Therefore, I'd say just keep raising it.

[Nicholasp27]

i don't like it, because u may have 5-way action on the flop and then not know u are beat...are u gonna throw ur aa away if no ace on flop and someone plays it aggressively? are u gonna call bet after bet spewing chips when the rags limped in and hit 2 pair?

i like raising to get more money for my premium hands and to help filter out the random rag hands that can be deceptively ahead of u after the flop

[durron597]

I don't like limping for the following 2 reasons:

1) Games are short enough you don't really have to worry about giving away a rock solid read, usually people can get an idea but that's not the same thing. You get AA or KK once every hundred hands (or so) on average, thus you will probably get them once every other SnG. Thus there is no real reason to mix it up. Raise.

2) The other issue is the reverse implied odds that result by letting someone see a cheap flop with two random cards to flop 2 pair / big draw, or a smaller pair that flops a set. Thus try to limit the field to hands you crush and are obvious when they hit, namely big aces and medium PPs. Also if you give a smaller PP incorrect odds to flop a set on you, oh well that's life but at least they made a mistake.

[se2schul]

It depends.
If you're playing at passive table that likes to call, then you should never limp. You should raise it.
If you're playing at an aggressive table with lots of raising and you're in EP, then limp or min raise if you think you'll get reraised.

[nyc999]

The only time I would ever consider it is if I have a maniac on my left who I am 99.9% sure will raise after I limp. Otherwise, it's a really bad idea.

As for mixing it up (Harrington's 80/20 rule), I think you rarely see the same player twice at the lower levels, making this play unnecessary.

Edit: I speak of the $10's when I say you never see the same player twice - maybe its different at the $20's and $30's.

[Jbrochu]

I think the responses so far have been good. One additional point is to consider if you're disciplined enough to lay it down post flop when the move backfires.

For example, you limp from EP and get 7 callers behind you. You don't hit anything but the flop is dangerous and it's clear from the betting action that one or several players say they have a hand.

[lem45216]

Yeah, good responses, thanks. I almost always raise them pf to about 3BB but just started pondering over it today. I might be more inclined to do it when it gets shorthanded because obviously you have less players to worry about and as players begin to value any piece of the flop a bit more, i.e. middle, 3rd pair etc i'm more happy for them to catch it so i can fleece them, if that makes sense. But yeah in the early stages (and actually almost all the time) i'll just raise it for value as it's rare you if you don't get one caller at the $11s, and because AA and KK play a lot better against fewer opponents, i much prefer to play them that way.

What about with say the $55s, $109s or $215s, does the deception matter a lot more there?