Top set, different aggressor on every street

[Dagger78]

All Villians 30+ VPIP, nothing out of the ordinary.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls, BB calls, CO calls.

River: (20 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, CO calls.

Final Pot: 24 BB

Should I be flat calling the river? I'm only behind to QQ and T9.

[krubban]

I don't think CO would call the flop with T9 and noone should have QQ either so i would raise this river.

[JerseyTom]

Nice hand. I wouldn't change a thing.

If you get shown QQ or T9, note that both hands were played sub-optimally.


Tom

[Dagger78]

It should be fairly obvious I lost this hand or I wouldn't have posted it.

I guess what I really want to know is QQ and T9 are unlikely enough I need to raise this river right? But at the same time I don't know what hand would bet into me on the river. Most players are going to check call even with 2 pair.

FWIW villian showed T9, played it horribly and didn't 3 bet with the nuts, so I guess he's getting added to my buddy list.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think CO would call the flop with T9 and noone should have QQ either so i would raise this river.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're probably right you should raise the river, but there's really no reason to believe players at 2/4 wouldn't call one on the flop with T9. Remember, many of them really, really suck.

[KDawgCometh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think CO would call the flop with T9 and noone should have QQ either so i would raise this river.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're probably right you should raise the river, but there's really no reason to believe players at 2/4 wouldn't call one on the flop with T9. Remember, many of them really, really suck.

[/ QUOTE ]


I dunno, the CO has been doing nothing but calling the whole way, we have been doing nothing but raising the whole way, and all of a sudden when its checked to him on the river he bets /images/graemlins/confused.gif, I think calling and going for some overcalls might be best as it would massivly suck to be three bet here

[callmedonnie]

nh. if i got this much action every time i flopped top set, i would quit my job. all those bets would make up for my bad play.

It's marginal, but I would say call the river here -- specifically because the CO hasn't been an agressor before.

Is he really bluffing at 3 players after a 3-bet turn? If not, why did he wake up on the river 8 after that much action? The only hands that make any sense are 88, 9T and QQ, but his play to that point screams draw so I'd discount QQ to some extent and just call, hoping to get overcalls when I'm ahead to make up for the lost bet from not raising.

[Dagger78]

[ QUOTE ]

It's marginal, but I would say call the river here -- specifically because the CO hasn't been an agressor before.

Is he really bluffing at 3 players after a 3-bet turn? If not, why did he wake up on the river 8 after that much action? The only hands that make any sense are 88, 9T and QQ, but his play to that point screams draw so I'd discount QQ to some extent and just call, hoping to get overcalls when I'm ahead to make up for the lost bet from not raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't figure out what draw though. T9 or 88 are most likely. Or again a weird 2 pair. I realized shortly after this hand this guy is MUCH worse (yes it's possible) than would be shown by this hand, and really needed zero calling standards to call the flop, and is just going to peel one off with any two cards. Therefore I think I have to raise.

[silkyslim]

nh, did u lose this one or what?

[Dagger78]

Yeah, he showed T9.

I'm just wondering about the river raise. It's only profitable if he calls me with a worse hand, and the more I think about it, the more I second guess myself. Wouldn't normal people have to have a monster hand to bet into me on the river and does that mean I should go for overcalls.

[baronzeus]

Dagger: call the river. SB and BB will likely call for 1BB in a 22BB pot especially after sticking around.


I love how CO flat called with the nuts

Normal people would check-raise the field on the river with T9, wouldn't they?

But then normal people wouldn't be at the river with T9...

[paperboyNC]

[ QUOTE ]
It should be fairly obvious I lost this hand or I wouldn't have posted it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I personally try to post 50/50. That way the results don't bias our responses. Half of the hands you post should be winners.

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW villian showed T9, played it horribly and didn't 3 bet with the nuts, so I guess he's getting added to my buddy list.

[/ QUOTE ]

This says it all.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, he showed T9.

I'm just wondering about the river raise. It's only profitable if he calls me with a worse hand, and the more I think about it, the more I second guess myself. Wouldn't normal people have to have a monster hand to bet into me on the river and does that mean I should go for overcalls.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why you raise donk bets from donks.

I have QQ, i raise, 1000 callers, ok, maybe 4

Flop is QJ3. I bet, it's raised, all call.

Turn board QJ35 suits not relavent.

I bet, call call call

River QJ358 Donk bets, I raise, call call call call.

he has Q8

I'd raise the river about 100 percent of the time. If he has QQ, T9, just make a note of it, and follow him around.