Did I overplay this?

[mybrainssore]

Now I hate the size of my pre flop raise, but do I fold to the all in and leave myself short?


***** Hand History for Game 2540783687 *****
30/60 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 14868337) - Mon Aug 15 18:22:07 EDT 2005
Table Table 14000 (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: chabos (715)
Seat 2: CCC123 (1215)
Seat 3: RxCowBell (1050)
Seat 4: mixedbruh (675)
Seat 5: romo055 (1105)
Seat 6: drdeath113 (525)
Seat 7: mohawg78 (770)
Seat 8: ajster (770)
Seat 9: Hero (590)
Seat 10: weeperson11 (585)
RxCowBell posts small blind (15)
mixedbruh posts big blind (30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Kc, Qc ]
romo055 calls (30)
drdeath113 folds.
mohawg78 folds.
ajster folds.
Hero raises (75) to 75
weeperson11 folds.
chabos folds.
CCC123 folds.
RxCowBell folds.
mixedbruh calls (45)
romo055 calls (45)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9d, Qd, 2h ]
mixedbruh checks.
romo055 checks.
Hero bets (200)
mixedbruh raises (600) to 600
mixedbruh is all-In.
romo055 folds.
Hero calls (315)
Hero is all-In.

[AbelM]

Why would you even think about folding here?

[mybrainssore]

Because he could have me beat..... AQ? a set? He'd play a lot of hands this way.

[durron597]

Don't raise KQs over 1 limper. I would limp behind, try to keep the pot small and get out of the way of heavy action.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't raise KQs over 1 limper. I would limp behind, try to keep the pot small and get out of the way of heavy action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also on the flop, you can probably safely check behind here. All betting is going to do is bring the chance for someone on a draw, or with a made hand (set, AQ, etc) to re-raise you all in. The problem is, you have no idea which he holds.

Okay, you find KQs and raise with it.
Now, what do you expect to flop?
You flop top pair, that's what you wanted, right?

You get check-raised by the big blind.
I don't think he would have check-raised here with a set or AQ, there's a flushdraw on the board, that's just not a good move, but i don't know anything about the player, so i could be totally wrong about his way of thinking.
But my guess is he's on a flush draw and he tries to pick up the pot right here by semi-bluffing.
Anyway, it's hard to say what to do here...

I think i would call, you only have t315 left and the pot got quit big).
But on the other hand, t315 is enough to make a move in this stage of the STT.

Best way to play KQs is to limp in that position or, if you decide to raise, raise MORE preflop; 2,5 times the BB is really to less to get BB out of the pot.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

Also on the flop, you can probably safely check behind here. All betting is going to do is bring the chance for someone on a draw, or with a made hand (set, AQ, etc) to re-raise you all in. The problem is, you have no idea which he holds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, you can't. Anyone with KJ/KT/JT has a straight draw, plus there are two diamonds out there and this is multiway. Of course that is an argument for calling the checkraise as well. But I'd be a lot more willing to let the hand go if the pot was smaller from the lack of a preflop raise and I wasn't really invested at all.

If your worried about AQ or a set you shouldn't have bet big on the flop...maybe check and call and see if you improve. But that's something you have to be aware of before you even start the action.

[AbelM]

This sort of thinking (he has me beat, i should fold) is wrong.

Before you see his hand, he doesn't actually have a hand but a range of hands. AQ and a set might be part of this range, but also a lot of other hands are. The pot is 1025 and it's 315 to call, you have top pair second kicker. There is simply no other correct thing to do but call. Sometimes he will show you AQ or a set, but that doesn't mean the call is a mistake.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
This sort of thinking (he has me beat, i should fold) is wrong.

Before you see his hand, he doesn't actually have a hand but a range of hands. AQ and a set might be part of this range, but also a lot of other hands are. The pot is 1025 and it's 315 to call, you have top pair second kicker. There is simply no other correct thing to do but call. Sometimes he will show you AQ or a set, but that doesn't mean the call is a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whether or not to call the last 315 is the least interesting decision in this hand.

[AbelM]

Well since he aksed this specifically in his original post and he didn't really seem to get why this is a very easy call i thought i would try to explain it to him.

Sorry?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Well since he aksed this specifically in his original post and he didn't really seem to get why this is a very easy call i thought i would try to explain it to him.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, you are right, it's just that the post was entitled "Did I overplay this?" which really has more to do with preflop and his flop bet than the really obvious allin call.

[ QUOTE ]
If your worried about AQ or a set you shouldn't have bet big on the flop...maybe check and call and see if you improve. But that's something you have to be aware of before you even start the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously, gaining more information about your opponent's hand by his actions are perfectly acceptable. There's nothing wrong in general with making a bet and deciding to fold to a raise--it's often a good play when a scare card falls. You expect him to read his check as a set or AQ and so to check behind? Much more reasonable to read his raise as that.

In the actual hand, I think you have to call here. However, you shouldn'tve played as you did preflop. As you pointed out, the size of the raise is a little small, but the main flaw in your logic here is that the you're not likely to have the best hand--KQ is a dog to any pair and any A. By raising, you just put extra money in the pot with what's very likely to be a second best hand. In normal situations, I think the rule of never raise with KQ behind a limper is probably safe. The exceptional situations are when you're short stacked, when you think you can get significant amounts of dead money in the pot by raising, when there is only one limper and he limps significantly more frequently than he should be picking up Ax or PPs, or when you think you can make the limper fold a better hand.

[dmoney]

Overplay??? More like underplay /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ur acting like ur hand is trash. U have a solid hand.

Folding is NO option here, unless maybe uve seen him do this move multiple times with sets etc. Im pretty sure ur against queen,10. Q,J. or most likely a flush draw.

The pot is laying u way to good of a price to lay this down. u have barely any chips anyways, without this pot ur out soon most likely. CALL and WIN /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
He'd play a lot of hands this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

You understand that much, so you should understand that the large group of hands he'll play this way includes a whole lot of hands you're ahead of, not just hands you're behind.

citanul

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't raise KQs over 1 limper. I would limp behind, try to keep the pot small and get out of the way of heavy action.

[/ QUOTE ]

i actually kinda like the small raise with KQs here, making it 45 more. should do a fine job giving him the button, as well as maybe knocking out the sb and seeing the flop 3 handed, which worked quite well. caught a flop hes not getting away from all too easily. it happens, and thats the trouble with KQ. personally i hate limping with hands like that, as i want to be in position and to be the last agressor. holla