AA cannot win....

....for me. I know, i know, this isnt really true. But I started playing a few days ago at .25/.5 and i CANNOT get people to stop winning with hands like 59o. I cannot get it done. I have lost a LOT with this hand. i cant shake the mentality that i cant win if i dont play donk-like. Are the lower limits always this bad? Do I have to change something?

[davet]

..........

That's Manga for a groan, confusion, a silent curse, etc. Yes, it is always this bad, I mean who cares about a friggin dollar?

I do. Is that the problem?

[mike4bmp]

I used to think this way...but I find that the micro limit players are really readable....If you open up for a raise or maybe even reraise and they cold call I think as dumb as they are they still put you on a big pair or AK at least.
If you bet and they raise...it seems like 95% of the time they catch two pair and they raise you...and it seems like you can never catch up by making a set or counterfeiting their hand. If I get raised or reraised by a douche when I am holding a premium hand I know right away that they are telling me that they are not afraid of AA or KK. Then I play cautiously from then on.
I don't know if this helps.....
But in my opinion for the ultra small games, drawing hands play the best b/c you usually end up with 5 or 6 dumb-a-- cold callers that catch Jesus Mary and Joseph on the flop turn and the river....hate it... /images/graemlins/mad.gif

My approach with AA at the lower limits

1) always raise and reraise preflop
2) always bet the flop - or raise or re-raise

From there, it really depends on the board.

My feeling is that if 59o is going to beat my AA, then so be it - I will not play scared of 59o.

[pokerjoker]

my guess is either
1. just bad luck for a few AA hands in a row
2. You arent betting enough to get drawing hands out.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
....for me. I know, i know, this isnt really true. But I started playing a few days ago at .25/.5 and i CANNOT get people to stop winning with hands like 59o. I cannot get it done. I have lost a LOT with this hand. i cant shake the mentality that i cant win if i dont play donk-like. Are the lower limits always this bad? Do I have to change something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Get pokertracker so you know exactly what your win/loss rate is with AA instead of relying on selective memory.

[Bodhi]

[ QUOTE ]
I find that the micro limit players are really readable

[/ QUOTE ]

Sort of. You can read them as having 2 pair, but there's really no telling whether it's nines and deuces or queens and jacks.

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]
Do I have to change something?

[/ QUOTE ]
Just hope the 59o guy doesn't learn to play better before you win back all your money and then some.

[SNOWBALL138]

The obvious solution is to fold AA preflop.

Obviously no one respects your raises, move up to higher limits where the players are better.

[Mikey]

you know what I think the odds that you got this far with this screen name and its still active and not delited is... amazing.

[SNOWBALL138]

Hi egocide,

A few things are true.

-You know almost nothing about poker.

-You are acting like a wimp by complaining about your losses.

-Wimps are unsuccessful at poker.

-If .5/1 matters to you, then you need to get a job or stop playing poker or both.

However, a few other things are also true.

- Poker is a great game and can be a lot of fun.

- Eventually, you will not be as ignorant as you are, provided that you seek out information and keep an open mind.

- Eventually, you will not be as wimpy as you are, provided that you stop feeling sorry for yourself. Most people, over time, build up a tolerance level for risk that is greater than zero.

- Even if you remain a losing player at .5/1, it is still possible to enjoy poker, provided that you live a balanced life, maintain your mental health, and don't take poker too seriously.

Best wishes,
Snowball

[dan123]

it's my firm belief that you are playing the absolute hardest level to beat in ring games. Move up to 1/2.

[SNOWBALL138]

[ QUOTE ]
it's my firm belief that you are playing the absolute hardest level to beat in ring games. Move up to 1/2.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you smoking and where can I get some?

[ QUOTE ]

- Eventually, you will not be as ignorant as you are, provided that you seek out information and keep an open mind.


[/ QUOTE ]

So when will this be true for you, Snowball?

[Xhad]

It depends. If you care that you're a dollar poorer, that's pretty sad. If it's just because you're losing, nothing wrong with being concerned about your game no matter what level you play. I play $4-$8 live and I still treat online .5/1 like it's life or death.

About what you can do differently: Do you know how to protect your hand postflop? That is, do you undertstand why you should consider not leading a T95 rainbow flop from the BB in a 14-bet pot even if you were the aggressor preflop? Or why you should consider waiting until the turn to raise from late position if the pot is 25 BB on the same board? You may be allowing your opponents to draw out in spots.

[PokerCad]

good golly,,,,,.5/1 ???????what do you expect?????

[TripleH68]

When you see AA come up preflop don't let your mind shut down on the hand. I know many players who just think they should win and are going to push all the way to the end no matter what the board or action, then complain when they lose too much.

[davet]

Sorry, I said, "Who cares about a friggin dollar?"
I was responding sarcastically, in the mind- set of the donk who calls you, that's why they play the way they do.

[ QUOTE ]
It depends. If you care that you're a dollar poorer, that's pretty sad. If it's just because you're losing, nothing wrong with being concerned about your game no matter what level you play. I play $4-$8 live and I still treat online .5/1 like it's life or death.

About what you can do differently: Do you know how to protect your hand postflop? That is, do you undertstand why you should consider not leading a T95 rainbow flop from the BB in a 14-bet pot even if you were the aggressor preflop? Or why you should consider waiting until the turn to raise from late position if the pot is 25 BB on the same board? You may be allowing your opponents to draw out in spots.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the dollar itself doesn't concern me, i simply dont like losing to people that I know i can beat. (see, they're getting to me, putting me on tilt lol) The thing you said about not leading even though you were the aggresor pf rings true, I've started to realize that it will not bet people out, so I gotta suck up the .50 cent to a dollar loss and fold.

you need to realize that every time someone makes a mistake, you gain. For example, when you have AA, you want to get every dollar in the pot when you're ahead, with a few exceptions.

Another point, there is a ton of variance in poker, you could be the best player in the world and never have a winning session. This may account for some of your losses.

Also, when you're in these slumps, just concentrate on playing solid correct poker and improving your game and dont worry about the individual winning and losing sessions.

What you may be doing, is paying off too much when your hand is no good. So if you're automatically taking this hand to the river, look at some of those hands and try to see if you didnt have to lose as much as you did when your hand wasnt best.

[Mayhap]

[ QUOTE ]
But I started playing a few days ago at .25/.5 and i CANNOT get people to stop winning with hands like 59o.

[/ QUOTE ]
If the current day begins with an M,T or W, limp with AA from early position and raise with it in late position. Otherwise raise it EP...

My real point is that you shouldn't just jam the crap out of AA just because it is the very best hand pre-flop and expect to win (all the time). The flop colors the whole hand. Once you see the flop and everyone's reaction, you'll know if your A's are the right crayons to finish the coloring.

AA is just another pocket pair. It has the same vulnerabilities as all pocket pairs. It just happens to be the best of pocket pairs.

If you really want to get deeper satisfaction out of your AA holdings, play no-limit.

[Xhad]

That's not what I meant.

Let's say you have AA, you raise preflop, and got four callers including the blinds. The flop comes T93. Donk in mid position has 67o, giving him a gutshot.

If you bet, and two other people call, the pot is going to be over 12 bets, which is plenty for the calling station to put in another bet hoping to catch. Letting him play correctly is bad. But now let's say you check, knowing that often someone in late position will bet if you do this. Now, you check-raise. Now, facing two bets cold, people will only be getting 5-to-1 immediate odds, which is not enough for a hand like KTo or 67s to call you. Will they call anyway? Probably. But ultimately those wins won't come often enough to justify their calls, which means they lose money in the long run. Guess where that money is going?

[ QUOTE ]
AA is just another pocket pair. It has the same vulnerabilities as all pocket pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

...minus the ability for overcards to hit the flop that will give your opponent a better pair.

[vexvelour]

[ QUOTE ]
The obvious solution is to fold AA preflop.


[/ QUOTE ]

[SNOWBALL138]

[ QUOTE ]


- Eventually, you will not be as ignorant as you are, provided that you seek out information and keep an open mind.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So when will this be true for you, Snowball?

[/ QUOTE ]

The day I stop making bad beat posts. Oh wait, I've never made a bad beat post.

::Sound of Nash_Clown getting blown up::

gg

Only continue with AA if you flop a set, and then you can take down a $4.25 pot! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[SNOWBALL138]

[ QUOTE ]
Only continue with AA if you flop a set, and then you can take down a $4.25 pot!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is obviously incorrect. What happens when a straight flush card comes off on fourth street or the river? Then you have to fold. Why not wait until all the cards are out before you put your money in?

[davet]

[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Only continue with AA if you flop a set, and then you can take down a $4.25 pot!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is obviously incorrect. What happens when a straight flush card comes off on fourth street or the river? Then you have to fold. Why not wait until all the cards are out before you put your money in?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe this post is bieng taken so seriously..

Listen up AA is a 2:1 fave over 72o in a heads- up battle. Now think of this in terms of a family pot.

Anyway.....

Forget it.

[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Only continue with AA if you flop a set, and then you can take down a $4.25 pot!

[/ QUOTE ]


This is obviously incorrect. What happens when a straight flush card comes off on fourth street or the river? Then you have to fold. Why not wait until all the cards are out before you put your money in?

[/ QUOTE ]
Apparently, I was not being sarcastic enough.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AA is just another pocket pair. It has the same vulnerabilities as all pocket pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

...minus the ability for overcards to hit the flop that will give your opponent a better pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah - but how often does THAT happen?

[fluff]

[ QUOTE ]
No, the dollar itself doesn't concern me, i simply dont like losing to people that I know i can beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but nothing, and I mean NOTHING you wrote indicates that you can beat any poker game anywhere. All you have written indicates a weak-tight, easy to tilt, gambling concepts devoid poker player. Even the title of your post sucks (and is wrong). Go read a poker book, preferably something written by Ed Miller.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AA is just another pocket pair. It has the same vulnerabilities as all pocket pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

...minus the ability for overcards to hit the flop that will give your opponent a better pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah - but how often does THAT happen?

[/ QUOTE ]

Never. Whenever I have pocket deuces, I just show them to the dealer so he knows to push me the pot instead of dealing a flop.

[SNOWBALL138]

Hmmmm. Ditto. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

I can't stand it when people waste their time putting other people down for their posts. No one goes to the effort of a post, unless they want a legitimate answer. Why the sarcastic biatches like Snowball even read the post in the first place, I'll never know. I'm guessing that by making other people feel bad, they make themselves feel better (-ev).
Here's your legitimate answer.
By having AA preflop, you automatically make anyone else's call a mistake. You want to get as much money in the pot as possible. Whether that means opening with a raise or going for the reraise depends on the players at the table. At the lower limits, it probably means raise, because idiots will still call anyway.
The simple fact. AA will win 85% of the time HU but only 31% of the time in a ring game (This is called equity). The good thing is, you might win less often, but you win more. Being prepared to win only 3\10 times in a ring game is the key to playing AA.

The math:
Equity = (win rate*#players) - 1
AA HU = (.85*2) - 1 = .7
AA ring = (.31*9) - 1 = 1.79 (much, much better)

When you get called with 59o be happy. For that matter, be happy when anyone calls. Just don't expect to win all the time.

Rake down the big pots. Regardless of limit.

Don't play at Party Poker b/c party is rigged and AA never wins.

sw.

[davet]

[ QUOTE ]
AA will win 85% of the time HU but only 31% of the time in a ring game (This is called equity). The good thing is, you might win less often, but you win more. Being prepared to win only 3\10 times in a ring game is the key to playing AA.

The math:
Equity = (win rate*#players) - 1
AA HU = (.85*2) - 1 = .7
AA ring = (.31*9) - 1 = 1.79 (much, much better)

When you get called with 59o be happy. For that matter, be happy when anyone calls. Just don't expect to win all the time.

Rake down the big pots. Regardless of limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't listen to this Egocide, I have never lost with
AA.

Seriously though. The reason why every one is getting mad at this post is because any one who might take poker a little bit seriously would never think of writing a thing like this.

Everyone is screwed up because we can't figure out why anyone would come to this site if they can't at least get a handle on something so basic as AA crashing. I mean, what posts have you read, dude?

If someone is not able to understand, or even find ONE book on such common knowledge, then the problem of them losing is VERY far removed from AA crashing. If they cannot search out, or more precisely, stumbly accross, such readily available material, there is not much we can say to help.

The reality of poker is that we all take bad beats, and I can maybe think of one worth telling, yet I never told it, especially here, because just like life, we all have been fired, dumped, hit, and generally hate our step- mothers. Who cares? We all go through it, it's nothing unique, and...
What- the- ###- ever.

[SNOWBALL138]

Hi Kwazzie,

The OP's post doesn't belong in the psychology forum, because the poster doesn't have a problem or question relating to psychology in general or poker psychology in particular. A few posters, myself included, were kind enough to alert the OP that he knew almost nothing about poker. He should probably post in the micro-limits forum, or the beginners forum or the poker theory forum, or the books/publications forum.

The OP can't solve this problem through zen, psychology, Jesus Christ, or patronization. He'll have to deal with it the way most winning players have: Hard work.


[ QUOTE ]
By having AA preflop, you automatically make anyone else's call a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats not true.

[ QUOTE ]
No one goes to the effort of a post, unless they want a legitimate answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many posters desire to get an ego-lapdance. This is often the opposite of a legitimate answer.

[ QUOTE ]
Why the sarcastic biatches like Snowball even read the post in the first place, I'll never know.

[/ QUOTE ]

My reason for your responding to your post is not that you mentioned me by name, although calling me a "biatch" was a good way to get my attention. No, I am responding because I truly believe that too many players (posters too) write off their failings to tilt or psychology or bad luck when the truth is that they don't play well.

Best,
Snowball

Ummm guys? I was pretty much just pissed off that AAs ran bad for a bit, i realize what their capabilities are, but i was venting. thanks for the advice.

p.s. Snowball...................eat sh!t and die. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

pps. yea, the thread can die now too, this went on for way too long.