How to play two pair?

[InfectGadget]

I didnt have any read on the players, just started playing at the table...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button ($48.25)
SB ($45.80)
Hero ($52.45)
UTG ($196.85)
MP ($60.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: ($2.25) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($2.25) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $2.15</font>, Button folds, Hero calls $2.15, UTG folds.

River: ($6.55) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $6</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $14</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $22</font>, Hero calls $8.

Final Pot: $50.55


I were thinking about check/calling it all the way, thinking he would bet his ace, as a reraise on the river would scare the top pair, i will be reraised from a set/straight.

So how should i go about here? I think i played it wrong, and shouldve called the river bet, not reraise.

[kyro]

I'm potting the turn and depending on my opponent, either getting the money in or calling down.

[MINETZ]

I dont understand the check on the turn, but you got what you wanted, why not re raise pot on the turn?

[hfrog355]

I would have bet out the turn almost 90% of the time, but at the very least check raised him. A lot. Then if you get re-raised again, you know you're behind and save yourself all that money on the river.

Bet the flop. The hand plays differently.

Since you didn't bet the flop, lead out on the turn.

Take control of this hand. Never get in a late-round p*ssing match with a shmuck who turns or rivers a lousy set.

[InfectGadget]

Ok, i get it, play it aggressively. Just wanted to hear opinions on the play i suggested, but i guess its to "complicated" to try at 50NL.

As i said, i checked the turn, then called, hoping an AK or AJ was betting here, and if i reraised those hands would most likely folded, but set and straights wouldve reraised me. Maybe wrong thinking, but seemed good...

[InfectGadget]

You think i should bet the flop here? if so how much?

[rikz]

Looks ok to me until the turn and river. I'd bet a little less than the pot on the turn. And then there's no reason not to value bet instead of trying for a check raise. I'd bet 1/3 pot at the river, and call a reraise from UTG+1 up to a pot-sized raise. If villain pushes, I'd need to go with my read of villain. Without a read, I'd like to believe I could fold. A7 two pair isn't that strong in an unraised pot. AT is better. A set is better. Kh Jh just backed into a straight after semi-bluffing the turn. Now, in a raised pot, if you flop two pair vs an overpair that villain can't let go off, then going to the felt is fine. But I wouldn't be surprised if you're beaten here.

Edit: I wouldn't bet into this flop with a pair of 7s either. If I'm called, I just build up a pot out of position with a terrible hand.

[phillydilly]

This isn't hand specific, but...

lately i've gotten much more aggressive with two pair, its just not nearly as strong a hand it appears

[elus2]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop. The hand plays differently.

Since you didn't bet the flop, lead out on the turn.

Take control of this hand. Never get in a late-round p*ssing match with a shmuck who turns or rivers a lousy set.

[/ QUOTE ]

why should he bet the flop when he's out of position with 2nd pair in a multiway pot?

I think you played it perfectly. Its possible the middle position player has a set but unlikely. While its a safe board to slowplay on, its just not that likely that a low limit player would slowplay a set in a multiway pot like that. Its possible he semibluffed the turn with KJ but again unlikely. Most low limit players want at least an open ended to do that in a multiway pot. By far the most likely hands he could hold is top pair mediocre or decent kicker. When he reraises the river you can rule out those hands but he could still reraise with a hand like AK or QT. Both reraises would be stupid but I've seen players at those limits make far dumber mistakes.

I don't know, a buck-twenty five sounds good. It's not a draw-heavy board (aside from someone holding 56), so the only call you get here is someone who's either hit the 7, the queen, or wants to chase their king or ace as an overcard.

In the later case, if the ace falls, you will get paid off by someone who thinks the ace only helped them. (they have an unpaired kicker).

I mean, they know you don't have an ace...because you bet the flop, so you must have a queen. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[elus2]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know, a buck-twenty five sounds good. It's not a draw-heavy board (aside from someone holding 56), so the only call you get here is someone who's either hit the 7, the queen, or wants to chase their king or ace as an overcard.

In the later case, if the ace falls, you will get paid off by someone who thinks the ace only helped them. (they have an unpaired kicker).

I mean, they know you don't have an ace...because you bet the flop, so you must have a queen. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

if the turn blanks, then what do you do?

[NYCNative]

I lead the turn with a pot-sized bet but failing that, come back with a big check-raise. I don't like the smooth call, your hand isn't strong enough for that. Even without a draw-heavy board there are scare cards and low and behold, one of them hit.

As played, you are now behind on the river against AT and KJ both of which are possible, as well as any slow-played set.

I just call down the river but as played, you have to call the reraise and hope villain doesn't show you anything better. He could be playing A4 this way, which is your best bet, or he's overplaying an Ace with an unpaired but cecent kicker, but given his river reraise, I am thinking you are beat a decent percentage of the time.

Doesn't matter...everyone folded to your flop bet.

[elus2]

[ QUOTE ]

Doesn't matter...everyone folded to your flop bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

so to recap you think that betting into the field first to act with 2nd pair is the most +ev play on the flop. secondly when your flop bet gets called it will be by Qx, 7x, or at least one unimproved overcard Ax/Kx. but you don't have a plan for the turn which doesn't really matter since everyone's gonna fold on the flop anyways.

[NYCNative]

Betting a flop out of position with middle pair is a great way to lose a lot of money in the long run.

precisely

[elus2]

brilliant.