Sites that use props.....?

[rusty JEDI]

I am interested in filling a list for sites that use props. Also which of these sites must the props admit to being props when asked.

I have heard that there is a site that tells the props to say something along the lines of "what is a prop," whenever asked. They are being told to lie and play dumb.

Thanks for any info.

[GrannyMae]

online props have really gotten a bad reputation, and i am not sure why.

B&M props are welcome additions and VERY good for the game/rooms. B&M props generally identify themselves, and in some cases even wear a badge.

however, being a prop online is somehow seen as a dirty thing, and something that is not good. casino prop players have been an asset to the poker players and rooms for 3+ decades.

can anyone guess why it has evolved to being thought of as a "dirty profession" online?? i can't figure out why the distaste for online props has developed.

i propped for a short period of time in a B&M and have alot of friends that still do it. it *was* an honorable profession. why all the bad karma toward online props?

FWIW, i don't blame the online props for using the 'dummy' response to the question. look at the lack of respect most players show toward them. i also have no objection to online props remaining anonymous, but i still can't figure out why they are not as coveted as those in the real world.

any guesses?

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[Inthacup]

For me, it's the same reason why I don't like the manager or software guys playing at my table. Even if they're upfront and honest about playing, I don't like the *possibility* of being cheated or colluded against. If I was in a casino, a manager or security operator is welcome at my table. If it's online, my table is forbidden territory.

[rusty JEDI]

When the prop manager flat out tells the props to lie. You wonder what else they have no worry lying about.

[mbpoker]

Sites that publicly admitted using props:

- PartyPoker
- UltimateBet
- ACR

Sites that publicly denied using props:

- ParadisePoker
- PokerStars
- TruePoker

No site that I know will identify specific players as props.

[GrannyMae]

When the prop manager flat out tells the props to lie.

i understand your concerns RJ, but lying about being a prop is a far cry from colluson or other problems. the only difference between you and a prop is that they are paid to sit there, while you are free to come and go.

i think that the reason that they are not telling the truth is that people judge props to be shady, and the point of my post was to figure out exactly why this perception has become prevalent.

i know that party does not identify their props, and i have been told that the reason is because it is irrelevant to the game. i agree with this.

in all honesty, i trust prop players more than total strangers. however, i am just trying to figure out where the distaste started, not whether they should tell the truth about it.

i guess i hijacked your thread, but my issue is not about who lies, but why they feel they have to.

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[Glenn]

Granny you are right.

99% of players are too scared to play short and will never start games. This had been debated ad nauseum before. If someone has a problem or question about a site, they should contact the site. If they don't like the response, they shouldn't play there. I know of a number of props who are terrible and very welcome in any game I am playing in. I don't see what the big deal is and think most concern comes out of ignorance.

[Fraubump]

I believe the reason for the distrust is just that internet poker has a shady feel to it to begin with, what with concerns over collusion, non-random dealing, etc., so the appearance of something fishy going on is a lot closer to people's minds than in B&M. Also, players online seem a lot whinier than B&M, probably due to the anonymity that the internet provides. When you lose to someone you are always looking for an excuse: "Because s/he's a prop" is a very handy one.

Disclosure: I was a prop for ACR until they renamed their prop program The Frequent Player Program (which I do participate in) and made the requirements a lot more flexible. Interestingly, however, since ACR began giving away 50 Promo Bucks 4 times a week almost all the Props/Frequent Player Programmers have opted out of the program to take advantage of that (which we are not eligible for) instead. I might have done the same, but my irl work schedule doesn't allow me to be there when those promos happen.

[jek187]

I can completely understand not publicizing that your site employs props. However, I do feel that if a prop is asked if he/she is a prop, then the prop should be free to respond truthfully.

It's true that some players don't view props favorably, and may choose not to play there due to that fact. Well, that's just a cost of employing props that a site needs to consider IMHO. Telling props and staff to lie about the use of props just makes things look dirty, and not only reflects bad on the indivdual site, but on internet poker in general. And none of us need that.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Rusty:

Some B&M cardrooms use what is known as a silent prop. These are people who are paid to play in certain games during certain agreed upon times, but they act like regular customers and are not identified as props. Long ago in 1984 when the Bicycle Club first opened in Southern california I worked as a silent prop in their $25-$50 draw game for a couple of months. So I know what I'm talking about.

Now whether you think this is a good concept or not, that's another issue. However, it is fairly common in the industry, and if Internet cardrooms do it as well all they are doing is what is standard accepted practice.

Best wishes,
Mason

[lorinda]

Well, there goes my "All props are morons" theory...at least there it goes if I want to keep posting here /forums/images/icons/blush.gif

Lori

[yocalif]

What kind of logic produces this kind of response?
Props work for the online cardroom. If the props are using collusion and a cardroom finds out, then the props lose their jobs. But your logic, implies that the cardroom condons this form of cheating. NOT!
Props most likely in the online environment don't even know another prop. Possibly after playing with same people for months they may finally ask and find out another player is a prop.
To assume that being a prop and working for a online cardroom, leads to cheating, collusion, unfair advantages, when in fact the purpose of a prop is to get customers to sit down at a table, is self defeating for management. NOT LOGICAL.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Inthacup wrote:
For me, it's the same reason why I don't like the manager or software guys playing at my table. Even if they're upfront and honest about playing, I don't like the *possibility* of being cheated or colluded against.</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

[GrannyMae]

Well, there goes my "All props are morons" theory


actually, this is a different topic all together. i'm not sure if i could come up with a reasonable argument to your analysis of the props human charachteristics, but identifying them is something that can clearly be argued from both sides.

i'm certainly a moron, and i propped. is mason a moron? well, he continually rebuffs my sexual advances, so you tell me.

http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/dinnerfor2.gif

[B Shulman]

Props are terrific. Bots can be too.

They probably have a bad name on line because site managers probably think that players will think props = owners = knowing cards = cheating = players losing.

I feel props should not only help start and keep games going, but should act as hosts and be identified. UB seems to come close to this with Annie Duke but probably they have (I have NO facts here) many who are unidentified.

Bots are considered even worse. The theory is that poker rooms would program them to win and therefore we have a similar bots = owners = cheating = players losing.

I also feels bots should be identified when used. However what if they programmed the bot to call every hand to the end and then fold? Sweet.

[GrannyMae]

However what if they programmed the bot to call every hand to the end and then fold?

one of the things that i think planetpoker does right is having these house players that bet all the way.
(cooke and caro do it sometimes, the others that do it are clearly identified as house players)
they are not bots, but bet like them. methodical betting and call everything. the problem is that they don't fold.

the intentions are great, which is to play the role of donating shills, but when they suck out on ya, it HURTS so bad.

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