10/20 stars hand

[bugstud]

I have about 2300 and have been taking down a few pots. Opp has a similar amount. guy in the hijack limps, he's a big winner in the game from what I know. I have no clue on the BB.

Just seeing how everyone else would play the hand...

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $20 BB (7 handed) http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter]FTR converter on zerodivide.cx[/url]

MP2 ($1984)
CO ($2667)
Hero ($2299)
SB ($11008.65)
BB ($2216)
UTG ($10412.50)
MP1 ($1057)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls $20, Hero calls $20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: ($70) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $60</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $240</font>, BB calls $180.

Turn: ($550) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($550) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $200</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $900</font>

Final Pot: $1650

[joewatch]

With this sort of flop, BB can only have str8 + flush draw, right? I think your chance to bluff at the pot came on the turn. If I were villain, I would have thought your play doesn't make any sense and called you on the river with any str8 or flush.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
With this sort of flop, BB can only have str8 + flush draw, right? I think your chance to bluff at the pot came on the turn. If I were villain, I would have thought your play doesn't make any sense and called you on the river with any str8 or flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the idea is that he lays down any straight here and often a lower flush. Waiting for the river with the flush wouldn't be that unusual and he has A /images/graemlins/heart.gif. I like it. But i'd like it more if we knew BB better.

edit: is the SB "marty7"? i was sweating the game earlier. Contemplating the shot I was going to take when I won event #2.

[bugstud]

opp was mafews

[GimmeDaWatch]

Do you or other players really check behind the turn with the nut flush regularly?

[Bartholow]

Yeah, beset says that "waiting for the river..." wouldn't be that unusual, but that's if you are calling a bet. Giving a free card is another matter entirely.

[scdavis0]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you or other players really check behind the turn with the nut flush regularly?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty common in this game.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you or other players really check behind the turn with the nut flush regularly?

[/ QUOTE ]

I datamine the 10/20 on stars and PP and I see this all the time (and occassionally light fire to chunks of my BR by taking shots at the game). In the games I play in i bet the turn because the passive idiots I play with will lpay me off drawing stone cold dead.

[autobet]

I see this play from time to time (checking the nut flush on the turn last to act).

I'm not sure I've ever seen Bugstud's play. The now famous "delayed bluff lone ace play with a set". Maybe we will se this in Rolf's book.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
I see this play from time to time (checking the nut flush on the turn last to act).

I'm not sure I've ever seen Bugstud's play. The now famous "delayed bluff lone ace play with a set". Maybe we will se this in Rolf's book.



[/ QUOTE ]

I think ciaffone and reuben mentioned it somewhere that they try to only bluff the dry ace with some other form of outs. This was the only situation where I thought I could check the turn profitably and then jam the river.

[Acesover8s]

It strikes me as fancy play syndrome. The problem you'll have is with a certain type of opponent who will never bet without the nuts, but will check call a river bet after it goes check-check on the turn; that they wouldn't have called on the turn.

The way it works out is perfect, but why not just pick up the pot on the turn?

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
It strikes me as fancy play syndrome. The problem you'll have is with a certain type of opponent who will never bet without the nuts, but will check call a river bet after it goes check-check on the turn; that they wouldn't have called on the turn.

The way it works out is perfect, but why not just pick up the pot on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was somewhat worried of them calling the turn then feeling committed and calling the the rest, or even a c/r where I am getting odds to fill and whatnot. I dunno I am playing pretty bad in all aspects of poker it seems like.

[Big Dave D]

If I'm working the numbers right, if he check raises the pot on the turn you aren't getting the right price to call anyway. The problem with the river is as Aces says, if he checks the river he will now call with all his flushes and maybe some of his straights too. He may not do that on the turn. By betting the turn you are putting the same amount of money at risk, and if he is going to call you down with the non-nuts, well you don't have to bet the river.

Lastly, raising the pot looks a bit suspicious too, in your actually play. A good player may get suspicious.

gl

DaveD

I think its a good play.

I see where betting the pot on the turn is a good play. You have the dry A and outs to make the best hand. This would be the standard play IMO.

However, if he knows that playing the hand this way is standard for he dry A and some kind of draw (or no draw) he may reraise, this would force you to lay down a hand which could become the best hand or call and take the worst of it. Both of you know he dosen't hold top aet. This makes the pot size bet on the turn ifey (this isn't a word and I don't know if this is how you would spell it if it was, but it's the best way for me to describe it)

By waiting till the river to make a play it seems much more likely that he will let it go. Checking the turn and raisig the river when a blank (for the flush) hits is a good play. You got him to stab at the pot for $200 and then made a play for it. I don't know if I could call if I were him.

If the money was deeper this had would have to play out differnetly IMO. I would jam the turn, that way if he calls with a flush or str8 he knows if he is wrong any you have the nuts its going to cost him a lot to find out. If he calls you have a chance to catch good and win a big pot, if you miss you can fire again for much more $ than on the turn and get him to lay it down there ( maybe he had a flush and 2nd set or top 2)

Thanks for posting this hand, there is a lot going on.

[Big Dave D]

I think you are overlooking the point Aces and I made. The play looks great when the hand goes down exactly as planned and he bets into you on the river. But if he checks again, as he is reasonably likely to do, then you are going to struggle to make him pass a hand that beats you.

For *exactly the same price* you can bet on the turn where he may pass hands which he won't pass on the river, such as a medium flush or a straight, if it goes check-bet.

Lastly, if the foe can check raise the turn without top trips or the nut flush then either he is incredibly loose, or he is incredibly good. In the first case, you will catch him eventually, in the latter, there is always another game.

gl

Dave

I don't think he will struggle to pass on a hand that trips can't beat. I don't think any str8 can call in this spot. Also some kind of flush with a str8/2 pair will let this go too. The guy has invested a total of $460 in this hand. The $200 river bet looks like a stab to me. I think he would cut his losses and get away from it.

Like I said the turn bet looks to be the standard play. When I first read the hand that is what I thouthg I would do in the same spot. After looking closly I started to like his play on the river.

Also what if he had a mid flush with a FH draw like second set or top two. Would this make him more likely to call a turn bet then show it down on the river becasue of the size of the pot? Where a check on the turn and a bet or raise on the river would make him see the nut flush for what it is and let it go?

Like I said it's a good hand with alot to think about. I enjoy all the comments.

I think the BB had a big wrap and called the flop for that reason. He didn't like the /images/graemlins/heart.gif on the turn and when it went check check he liked his hand again the 9 on the river was a blank for him and he thought his str8 was good. He may have had a flush but it would have been like 9 or 10 high. I think it was just a big wrap.