Weak preflop call leads to big trouble [Archive]

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awsome008

09-05-2005, 09:10 PM

Very lose table around 53% see flop on average. I usualy dont make this call in early position with a weak suited ace. But given the table I fiqured it was going to be multiway anyways. I hated getting trapped for bets on the flop. Calling 2 bets back to me on the flop in that pot was a horrible play. I thought i had enough outs to peel one off. I loved the turn card and thought that capping here, with so much money in that pot was the correct play. And i also think that the river call was just spewing. Any comments berating or advice would be great.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB calls, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 3-bets, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 caps, MP2 calls, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (16.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, SB calls.

River: (36.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 40.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has Jd Ts (one pair, jacks).
Hero has 7h Ah (one pair, sevens).
MP1 has Ad Ac (one pair, aces).
MP2 has Js 2s (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: MP1 wins 40.50 BB.

SCfuji

09-05-2005, 09:14 PM

im out after its 2 bets back to me on the flop. if this table regularly has 6 to 7 players in each pot i dont mind limping suited aces but otherwise id muck them.

Hojglad

09-05-2005, 09:25 PM

Haha. This hand is also posted in the no-content thread. Didn't I already tell you that you played it well on every street except the flop? I might fold the flop when it's two bets back to me here. Other than that, you should probably fold the river. Your hand is good here like, never.

[ QUOTE ]
I loved the turn card and thought that capping here, with so much money in that pot was the correct play.

[/ QUOTE ]
Capping this turn is the correct play, but not because there's a lot of money in the pot. It's because you are usually drawing to 13 outs or so (overcard two pair discounted) and you have a huge equity advantage.

Hojglad

09-05-2005, 09:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
im out after its 2 bets back to me on the flop. if this table regularly has 6 to 7 players in each pot i dont mind limping suited aces but otherwise id muck them.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was sweating the preflop raiser during this hand when it happened. Limping suited aces at this table was a great idea. Enormous implied odds.

MrWookie47

09-05-2005, 09:28 PM

The flop call the second time around is pretty borderline. You're looking at 6.5 outs, but on that board, you have to start discounting some of your two pair and trips outs. The pot is awfully gigantic, however.

The turn is pretty questionable, too. You are now looking at 7 outs at the worst (7 or 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif might boat someone up), 14 at best, and against your opponents range of hands, somewhere in between in reality. Your fair share equity is 20%, so if you have 11 outs or more, you can raise and cap for value. If you have less than that, then the cap is terrible. Your raise folded no one and cleaned up nothing, and they're certaily not going away now if they're still there. I don't quite think you have 11 outs. I'm thinking there's a high likelihood you're up against better than one pair, so I wouldn't be overly enthusiastic about calling with only aces up. I think the time you win with two pair is about equal to the chance you lose to a set or a boat, so I'll give you 10 outs (not counting the 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif twice), meaning I don't like the turn cap at all.

That river call is burning money. What did you honestly think you were beating?

Hojglad

09-05-2005, 09:31 PM

The OP didn't provide reads. The entire table was on tilt because of the idiot who sat to the immediate left of the preflop raiser. He would constantly 3-bet and cap with nothing. I would put the chances of someone having a set here right around 0. FWIW, I had seen the SB play a couple of hands here where the maniac was involved like they were the nuts, and all he had was top pair crappy kicker.

awsome008

09-05-2005, 09:40 PM

Yeah the river call, I knew was just spewing when i made it just burning money away. On the flop the donk better was just 3 betting and capping with any 2 cards. So when it was 2 bets back to me i really discounted him for a hand. When I raised the SB I fiqured that would cause some folds but everyone just stayed in the pot. Considering it was such a huge pot i would not laid down trips or even 2 pair if I had made it. But of course I really thought my only outs were the 9 flush cards. And there were 5 other players in the pot. I did not think a set was possible the way the action was going at the table.

SCfuji

09-05-2005, 09:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
im out after its 2 bets back to me on the flop. if this table regularly has 6 to 7 players in each pot i dont mind limping suited aces but otherwise id muck them.

I was sweating the preflop raiser during this hand when it happened. Limping suited aces at this table was a great idea. Enormous implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree

@bsolute_luck

09-06-2005, 09:14 AM

i think awsome008: you and the sanch (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3325561&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) need to exchange hand histories and notes /images/graemlins/wink.gif

jrz1972

09-06-2005, 09:27 AM

Preflop is standard.

The flop is borderline. You might fold when it's two back to you, but calling isn't awful.

The turn was played poorly. You don't want people folding.

I'm not sure why you bothered calling the river.

MATT111

09-06-2005, 09:46 AM

Preflop is ok at this table.
Calling another 2 on the flop is thin (about 4 outs).
Turn raise is good but dont cap it.
Hard to fold the river with 40.5 BB - you have to consider that there is people still to act. Folding may cause serious health problems - so call.

bozlax

09-06-2005, 09:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i think awsome008: you and the sanch (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3325561&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) need to exchange hand histories and notes /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Good eye, @b. And, boys, don't forget to throw each other a, "Sup bro," at the table.