($22) 3 Basic Bubble Hands- Advice Wanted

[bluef0x]

I'm looking for the standard lines you guys take in these positions..

1st hand- opponent raised the last hand and has raised a lot when he is button/sb.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t3685)
Hero (t1325)
UTG (t1470)
Button (t1520)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t600</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero ??


2nd hand--


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed)
SB (t4315)
BB (t1665)
UTG (t945)
Hero (t1075)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero Push/Call/Fold?


3rd hand--
Button has been very weak.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t4540)
UTG (t1590)
Button (t1095)
Hero (t775)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t150, Does anyone push here?

I think these hands require more info. (although, if raptor can 20-table, I guess there is a standard line)

Hand 1 depends on how loose you and button have been, if you've been quiet a push will have a greater likely hood of taking it down. But if he's been known to call with less than optimal hands, you might want to reconsider...this hand is tough for me as Im constantly in the same dilemma and dont really know the right way to go about it.

Hand 2 is dependant on how often SB has been pushing. Obviously if he does it alot and now just completes, you know your in trouble.

Hand 3 I think is a clear push, but then again, if button has been pushing alot and now just calls?...kinda shady.

[quarkncover]

3 very good questions bluef0x. Gets a n00b thinkin /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I am still relatively new to SNG's and am learning every day (Less than 350 under my belt). Last week I would push every one of these. But recently I have been rethinking my bubble play. I'm playing a lot at UB and stars right now while I look for a good rakeback deal, and the longer tournaments and longer bubbles have made me completely readdress my play.

Hand #1 Against an opponent that has raised two pots in a row (not pushed) I'm inclined to fold this; as more often then not I am shown big hands in this spot. This is definitely a problem for SNG power tools or Eastbay's program. Both of which you have inspired me to acquire! /images/graemlins/smile.gif Still my first instinct is to push. Leak?

Hand #2 I'm pushing here every day, though I am excited to see what my $EV and cEV for pushing here is.

Hand #3 Even though you only have 775 here, I'm either calling or folding here. I'm called by Ace-rag in this spot more than I'm comfortable with. I'd probably muck with the BB as big stack in this hand depending on how he's been-playing. Weak-tight? Flame away.

I think these are all easy pushes with the chip stacks in the diffrent hands.

[Manque]

2nd hand. Am I missing something or does the order seem wrong?

[tigerite]

1. Stop and go
2. Push
3. I think push or complete are ok, problem with pushing is not the button but the BB, who will be priced into calling with quite a lot.

Hand one is interesting, and is the only hand of the 3 that really requires thought, IMHO.

Button scares me. A raise to 3x BB on the bubble in a $22 game means one of 2 things:

a) I am a terrible player, and will fold to an all in
b) I am trying to make you push all in so I can show down my monster

Of the 2, I think b is more likely. You have to think in buttons shoes. and in order to do that you must have a read on him. Has he been playing other hands like this? If his standard is to push, this is an easy fold. If his standard is 3x BB no matter what the blinds are, then it may be a push. If you were in his shoes (which you almost never should be) what would you be holding to make such a play? What is going on in his head?

4 handed ATs is a strong hand, and I have a love/hate feeling for folding here. This is a push/fold situation since you will be risking more than 40% of your stack. You really need a good read to push here. If button is a donk, with no clue how to play the bubble, this is an easy push.

You need a good read here to make a good decision. With no reads I would fold this hand, simply because it appears they want a call.


Hands 2 and 3 are both auto-pushes in my game (for the most part). However keep in mind that there is no set rule that you have to push these. There are times that some of my "auto-push" hands are worth folding. I recommmend really think (out loud if need be) about every decision you make at the table , and you should have at least 2 good reasons why you are making a play before you make it. "Because X from 2+2 told me to", is not a reason by the way /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[tigerite]

What's wrong with a stop and go on hand 1, please.

[Shakespeare]

Had all 3 as auto push (Standard line), but I now prefer the stop&amp;go for hand 1.

I suppose a stop and go would be fine if you like the play.

Personally I tend to stay away from stop and gos. I prefer to play the flop, and not have my mind set on pushing any flop. To me, that just doesn't make sense. At the higher limits, yes, it might be a good play. But at the $22s, not likely the best choice.

[tigerite]

Actually the opposite is probably true, at the $22s if they have say 55 and the flop is KJ8, they won't call very often at all, whereas at a higher level, they may read you for a stop and go, and call.

[45suited]

I'm going to be the lone dissenter here.

1) With the chipstacks such as they are, I think that pushing, stop-n-going, and (yes) folding are all viable options depending upon your read. It will be so easy to push into the BB when folded around to you that I really don't think that folding here is so bad. If the BB was sufficiently tight, I could fold here. Yes, the button has been raising a lot, but he did just commit 40% of his stack, so I don't think that we can necessarily be putting him on any two here.

It's hard to say what I'd do without actually being in the game, obvserving the raiser's play up to this point.

2) Auto-push

3) Fold or complete. If you're lucky, button might get into a pissing contest with BB. I don't like pushing here. Meh.

[tigerite]

To be fair, I said you could complete in 3 too. It depends on the BB. I'm not bothered about Button, he'll fold.

[45suited]

Yes, you did... when I said I was dissenting, I was referring to hand 1.

I'm waiting for the self appointed "weak tight police" to descend upon me for that one. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[kevkev60614]

I'd push 1 and 2, and fold 3. I think 1 is the easiest push of all. I'm definitely not folding that hand 4 handed.

If the button hadn't called in 3, I'd push, even though the BB is the big stack. But I think either BB or button calls with an A.

[45suited]

I'm very interested in seeing the OP post the results of these hands. I don't think that hand 1 is as clear cut a push as everyone is saying.

Button has just raised 40% of his stack. If you fold, you can easily steal from the BB almost at will. I wouldn't be surprised if you are at best a coinflip with the button here, and I don't think that you have tremendous FE by pushing. (Not saying that FE is zero, but I don't think he's likely folding.)

ATs is a very strong hand 4 handed, but for the reasons that I've mentioned, I think that folding is okay here.

I'm not necessarily advocating folding, but I think that sometimes we see two pretty cards and say "auto-push" without giving the situation sufficient thought. I certainly do NOT think that this is an auto push. There is a bit more to it, IMO. I'm just trying to get people to look a little deeper into the situation. What hands would you raise 40% of your stack with here (Button is not chip desperate) and then fold to a push? If I raised 40% of my stack here (as opposed to pushing), I'd have a hand that would hold up very well against AT. Add to that the fact that if you fold, you can easily steal from the guy to your left and the hand becomes a bit more complicated, IMO. Just a thought... flame away.

[kyro]

1. Easy push. You are ahead of villain's range if he's raising often in position.

2. I yell at SB for acting out of turn.

3. I fold and hope BB and button go at it.

[AliasMrJones]

I like a push on all 3. (Though after reading some of the responses, stop n go on hand 1 looks good as well and maybe better for hand 1.)

Hand 2 looks messed up. How can SB complete and then BB folds and then the action is to you? I assume you're in BB, it is folded to SB who completes and then action to you.

[jadducci]

[ QUOTE ]
2. I yell at SB for acting out of turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha

1 - I think that its very read dependant but I think that your probably against 2 high cards because I would think if he had a low medium pair he would have went all in with it and therefore you would be all in against I would assume a approx range of j10+ and probably about a 1/3% chance of a total bluff. Therefore I think I would push with this most of the time.

2. is an easy push
3. Fold, no need to play a marginal hand in that situation.

[Pudge714]

1. Fold
2. Push
3. Is interesting if he was been playing weak his limp either is a trap or a weak limp with a marginal hand it all depends on your read of the limper, sorry I couldn't help more. If he is limping a lot weak push, if he is folding a lot weak probably fold.

While that may be true, I have seen donks spite calling with 55 on a KJ8 flop (although it is quite rare, it happens). Also, you are forgetting about the times they flop bottom pair, or mid pair (even a higher ace with a flush draw).

In the higher limits, even if a player reads you for a stop and go, they simply can't call with 3 overcards on the board.

Although I do see your reasoning, this is just a personal prefrence of mine. Maybe when I gain more experience and become a god of $22 sngs I will learn something from this thread and start using stop and gos. Thanks /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[bluef0x]

Hand 1-

As I said he's made this raise from either SB or BUTTON from almost every orbit. I pushed and he called with QJo, he spikes a Q on flop and my pair of tens doesn't improve.


Hand 2-

I had no reads because I was really busy and not focusing on the SnGs (watching TV with GF) I don't know why, but the hand converter hates me... I was SB and BB was 1520 stack. I pushed all-in and he called with A6o and nothing came on the board.


Hand 3-

I wasn't concerned with the Big Stack, he stayed out of any contested pots. He preferred to take it down when he was button and everyone folded to him. The button here looks like the typical "got lucky in levels 1-3 and still trying to play mediocre hands" kind of guy. I was shortstacked and felt like this would be a nice pot to take down, I pushed and everyone folded.

Thank you all for your input, this is my first time really posting some hands. I'd still like to hear more of people's opinion on these 3 hands

[Bco1/75]

1st:

This one depends on the villian, tight or loose? He has basically commited himself to the pot, is he the type who would try to steal here? Most likely, I push

Hand 2
Given your small chip stack I push.

Hand 3
Push

[Bco1/75]

[ QUOTE ]
What's wrong with a stop and go on hand 1, please.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a stop and go serves any purpose. Whether you push pre flop or bet the rest post flop (which you would have to do based on chip and pot size) the villian is going to call he will call in either situation. And would be more likely to call post flop over pre flop raise.

[bluef0x]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's wrong with a stop and go on hand 1, please.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a stop and go serves any purpose. Whether you push pre flop or bet the rest post flop (which you would have to do based on chip and pot size) the villian is going to call he will call in either situation. And would be more likely to call post flop over pre flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree... I think a stop n go is when you have a short stack and crap cards. Here I have short (but OK) stack and a good hand. It's better to push all-in now while you have the better hand with a chance he folds compared to after the flop when he either hits something or is enticed into calling.

[Burno]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm very interested in seeing the OP post the results of these hands. I don't think that hand 1 is as clear cut a push as everyone is saying.


[/ QUOTE ]

Because once we see the results, we'll know the correct play?

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm very interested in seeing the OP post the results of these hands. I don't think that hand 1 is as clear cut a push as everyone is saying.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Because once we see the results, we'll know the correct play?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry. I guess I should have no interest in seeing the results of the hand. I wasn't implying that if the OP lost the hand, that folding would automatically be the correct play. I wanted to see: a) if button would call the push (as I suspected) and b) if villain's hand was anywhere near the range that I had put him on when I saw the post. That's all.