what is the move here? (AJs)

[chipzilla]

PP 10+1;
Table Table 11075 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: FlthyMcNsty9 (1895)
Seat 2: glenhay (390)
Seat 3: Pkr4food (1510)
Seat 5: igetupat12 (275)
Seat 7: j2dubmd (1035)
Seat 8: Grabba2 (1590)
Seat 9: Hero (1305)
j2dubmd posts small blind (50)
Grabba2 posts big blind (100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ad, Jd ]
Hero ?

[raptor517]

7 handed, you have a good stack.. theres 2 shorties that might wanna gambool, and AJs aint too shabby. in a 10.. im still learning, and might possibly fold. in a 109, i make it 250 most of the time. holla

[AlmightyJay]

I would raise 300-400, sometimes just call. Depends on how loose the table is.

AJ's good against raggy Aces and a coinflip to low pocket pairs. If someone else goes all in, I don't want to be committed with this hand.

I like my stack size and ability to steal. I don't want to jeopardize a good position with a marginal play.

I call UTG and call an all in from the shorties, but not the medium or big stacks.

[Manque]

You're in pretty good shape and don't need the blinds, so unless you're adapt at playing AJ oop I'd fold.

I like no logo's line, limp and call an allin from a short stack, fold to any other raise. Unless you've been limp/folding often, you should get HU against the BB often enough to make this worthwhile. Plus, often a short stack will push with any ace here to pick up your "dead" money.

While marginal in some situations, I really think AJs is too strong a hand 7-handed to fold.

I probably make it 300-350 and see what happens. You may be called only by a short stack - no more damage can be done. Or only by one of the blinds in which case you won't be OOP post-flop.

[Uppercut]

I raise this to 300 and only fold preflop to a reraise from a large stack. I call the all-in from one of the short-stacks. If someone smoothcalls my raise, then I lead out on the flop with a continuation bet and hope to God that they fold then. (Unless I flop AAJ). /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I wouldnt have a problem folding this as you are comfortable, but a call would also be fine. However, just to avoid letting the blinds use rags, I'd raise 200-250

[DyessMan89]

Heres the options ...

1. Fold. Too weak of an option. What are you waiting for if your going to fold AJs 7 handed? Awfly weak-tight IMO.
2. Raise to 300. Not bad. But now youve already committed 20-25% of your stack pre-flop, and you cant use the Stop N Go on the flop. Most likley you will be called in 2-3 spots, and be in some trouble. I think this option is out.
3. All-in. This was my initial thought -- but now that I think about it --- is it worse risking your entire stack (1300 chips) to pick up 150 in blinds? Your not even increasing your stack by 10%. Big risk for a small reward.
4. Limping. This is my option. Youll still have 12X BB after the limp, plenty of room to manuever. If you are an experienced post-flop player, you shouldnt have a problem.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
7 handed, you have a good stack.. theres 2 shorties that might wanna gambool, and AJs aint too shabby. in a 10.. im still learning, and might possibly fold. in a 109, i make it 250 most of the time. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't a push, and so I don't like to raise unless I'm specifically calling a push from one, or both, of the short stacks. As they are so low anyway, I think a call is fine here.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
1. Fold. Too weak of an option. What are you waiting for if your going to fold AJs 7 handed? Awfly weak-tight IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Position.

I would probably fold here, although I think that raising somewhere in the neighborhood of 250-300 is a viable option as well. It depends on the table. No shame in folding here though either. I'm not worried about someone calling me weak tight, I play the cards, they don't play me.

[tigerite]

Yeah, I agree. Without the short stacks I'd fold this. However them being there means I don't mind to risk the 1bb with AJs in the hope of snapping off a push with some mediocre A or K that they are likely to make. If someone else raises or pushes, then I can fold, and still have a nice stack.

A call here will most likely induce a feeding frenzy. The small stacks will be drooling at the money in front and once they go in look for a big stack to isolate behind them with just about anything. Curious what UTG would be raising? 2xBB raise in his position looks like he is screaming for someone to jump on. He will have first crack if small stack moves all in and with any skills at all this is exactly what he will do.

[kevkev60614]

[ QUOTE ]
3. All-in. This was my initial thought -- but now that I think about it --- is it worse risking your entire stack (1300 chips) to pick up 150 in blinds? Your not even increasing your stack by 10%.

[/ QUOTE ]

I need to brush up on my math.

And I think some of you have lost touch with the lower limits. I think many players call at this level call with A7+, KQ+, 66+. And a surprising number will call with any A, any 2 broadway, any pair. I don't think a push here is terrible.

[tigerite]

A push here IS terrible.

[kevkev60614]

[ QUOTE ]
A push here IS terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

This post did very little to convince me.

Does everyone disagree with my range?

[tigerite]

You really think that, for instance, UTG+1, CO, SB or BB are calling with anything under AT? For >10BB? Sorry, it just isn't likely.

[sng-sam]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. Fold. Too weak of an option. What are you waiting for if your going to fold AJs 7 handed? Awfly weak-tight IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Position.

I would probably fold here, although I think that raising somewhere in the neighborhood of 250-300 is a viable option as well. It depends on the table. No shame in folding here though either. I'm not worried about someone calling me weak tight, I play the cards, they don't play me.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly. You are only as weak as you feel. If you feel you can lay this down and succeed later then do it. I would. Others wanna play it. AJs Severely OOP is still too weak for 7 handed. 5 Handed? I raise 2.5 BB,call shorty push and fold to big stacks reraise.

SAM

[Newt_Buggs]

A push is definitly not terrible, especially since I don't think that there is a hand range that will make it -EV

I raise to 250 here though

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
I call UTG and call an all in from the shorties, but not the medium or big stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

fwiw, I hate this.

If you just limp, and a shorty goes all-in, another big stack probably comes over the top to isolate. But if you open with a raise, and then a shorty goes all-in, the table is likely to defer to you.

Also, raising discourages the shorties from putting their chips in with hands I'd rather not be up against. If I raise to 250, the shorties can push, but you're committed to a call so you basically set them all-in while risking less in case a big stack wakes up with a big hand. The shorties will also push with fewer hands than if they limped.

I want to go up against a shorty who has A5o. I don't want to go up against a shorty that has KQo, T9s, whatever. Yes I'm a favorite, but I don't want to call off 1/4 of my stack and be up against live cards. I think if you raise, it narrows the shorties' ranges, so that you dominate a greater % of the hands they'd push with.

There are three reasons why I prefer to raise rather than limp:

1. You can win the blinds with a raise.
2. If a shorty goes all in, other big stacks are less likely to make an isolation raise.
3. If a shorty goes all in, you're more likely to be up against a dominated hand because his range will have tightened up somewhat.

[Fatdogs12]

I hate a raise to 300-400 here. You are risking so much of your stack for what purporse? You are completely out of position and you have a good size stack. I think raising something like 250 is fine if you want to raise, this way you take a decent shot at the flop, entice shorties to bet and don't get hit by a mack truck if somebody wakes up with something good and wants to push.

More than 300 is just a waste of money imo.

[jon462]

[ QUOTE ]
Heres the options ...

1. Fold. Too weak of an option. What are you waiting for if your going to fold AJs 7 handed? Awfly weak-tight IMO.
2. Raise to 300. Not bad. But now youve already committed 20-25% of your stack pre-flop, and you cant use the Stop N Go on the flop. Most likley you will be called in 2-3 spots, and be in some trouble. I think this option is out.
3. All-in. This was my initial thought -- but now that I think about it --- is it worse risking your entire stack (1300 chips) to pick up 150 in blinds? Your not even increasing your stack by 10%. Big risk for a small reward.
4. Limping. This is my option. Youll still have 12X BB after the limp, plenty of room to manuever. If you are an experienced post-flop player, you shouldnt have a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

you forgot fold, which is the best option by far at a 10+1 with 13 bbs.

[schwza]

i like a raise to 250 and fold to a non-short a-i.

[curtains]

FWIW I would raise to 250. Also pushing isn't terrible, as it's probably very slightly +ev

[tigerite]

Also the reason the push IMO is terrible is not because you are likely marginally +ev here, which is probably true, but because the chance of the small stacks calling a push is much less than them coming over the top of a limp/standard raise with a dominated hand to AJs

[bennies]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW I would raise to 250. Also pushing isn't terrible, as it's probably very slightly +ev

[/ QUOTE ]
my childhood learning is being questioned...


Could you explain why a raise to 250 is better than a push, is it because you fold to a reraise from a non-shortie?

Fwiw, raise-folding is the one thing I would never think of doing here, 18% of my stack is a lot to give away...

may be because 18% is much less than 100%!? Why not getting the blinds if no one has a better hand OR
getting HU with a desperated shorty OR
saving the rest of your chips against someone who is much more likely to play AA-QQ or AQ+ than playing a hand dominated by you?

[tigerite]

Ok having thought some more maybe I was a bit harsh with "terrible" as it's not to take something that is +EV, but I reckon taking one or both of those short stacks out is more +EV and so I would bet in a way that would make that more likely.

[curtains]

I'm not at all worried about eliminating a small stack. The best thing that could happen when I raise is have everyone fold. However I don't feel its necessary to risk your entire stack here, thus Id raise to about 250-275.

I definitely don't WANT a small stack to call me. It's not a disaster but definitely not something Im trying to encourage here with only AJs.

[bennies]

I take it that you plan to fold your 18% to a reraise from a non shortie. Usually, on an ordinary 55-table, I'll only put in up to about 14% of my stack, could I ask how much of you would put into a steal attempt such as this one? 20%, 25%? (25% seems ridiculous to me, i.e. a raise to 250 with 750 behind...)

[curtains]

If I had 1000 chips I would simply move allin preflop. The higher it gets, the more likely I will just raise to 250. Im not sure what the exact cutoff is right now, but Im willing to not move allin when I have over 1300 chips.

[Raemius]

I may be very wrong here, but I just can't see folding this pre-flop unless given a reason to. I'm raising to 225-275. I will probably fold to a reraise from the bigger stacks, but call an all-in from the smaller ones. Infact, I'd like one of the short stacks to go all in.

AJ-s is the 8th best starting hand in hold-em by win%, there are only 7 better hands, why would you fold this pre-flop in an unraised pot? Sure, you may run into one of the 7 a small percentage of the time, but your hand may be the best at the table.

If it was raised, I may lay it down depending on my read.


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