The Hurricane Comparison

[dtbog]

I just read a thread on this forum in which someone berated a poster for complaining about his recent downswing in poker; the respondent's words were something to the effect of "thousands of people died, quit whining about losing a few Benjamins."

This point rarely seems to hold weight. Sure, there are situations here and there when proceeding about your daily life is callous and insensitive; if your friend's mother dies, it might not be appropriate to head over to his house and whine about busting out of a tournament.

However, there are many ordeals that others across the globe face on a daily basis, and we can't spend our entire lives suppressing our own emotions because someone else might be experiencing something more extreme. Consider the reverse case; should we not be happy to win a poker tournament because someone else somewhere won the lottery? Should we not be happy about a first kiss or a new discovery because someone else just got married or won a Nobel prize? Of course not. We each lead our own lives, and we are entitled to a degree of personal subjectivity when evaluating our own situations.

I posted this because I am very interested in hearing a point of view that directly opposes mine. If you think that we should not be worrying about bankroll downswings or minor injuries after a natural disaster has occurred somewhere else, tell me why.

[hansdebelge]

good post.

[jkkkk]

Its obvious that the idiot that posted:

"thousands of people died, quit whining about losing a few Benjamins."

is indeed, an idiot, stop posting here and get back to ssnl. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[einbert]

I was the one who made that post. I admit I was in a foul mood at the time. I may not have been correct to draw the comparison. However I do love to argue/debate and you seem like someone who is willing to debate this topic logically and actually think about it so perhaps we will both learn something from a discussion.

[ QUOTE ]
However, there are many ordeals that others across the globe face on a daily basis, and we can't spend our entire lives suppressing our own emotions because someone else might be experiencing something more extreme.

[/ QUOTE ]
What you are saying is that we shouldn't downplay our own problems because there will always be someone with bigger problems. In one sense this is correct, but there is something else to it. I am grateful for the things I have--I believe that it is only a function of chaos/God that I have many of the things I have today. I recognize that there are those less and more fortunate than I am, and this helps me be content at times. It has proven to be a useful thing for me.

[ QUOTE ]
Consider the reverse case; should we not be happy to win a poker tournament because someone else somewhere won the lottery?

[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps we shouldn't, but not because someone else won the lottery. Maybe we shouldn't be too happy about it because winning a poker tournament is mostly a function of variance--the same as me having a 100 BB upswing in LHE. By recognizing that luck is a huge factor in my wins and losses I am able to keep a more even keel emotionally. If I thought that every pot I won was due to my skill and every pot I lost was due to my lack of skill, I would go crazy in short order.

[ QUOTE ]
Should we not be happy about a first kiss or a new discovery because someone else just got married or won a Nobel prize?

[/ QUOTE ]
Why should we be happy about these things? They are both largely a function of chaos. For every scientist that wins the nobel prize, aren't there hundreds (or maybe thousands?) more scientists out there that have dedicated their lives just as much to the discovery of knowledge? Should we be happy because we just got our first kiss? Sure we will feel euphoric at the time. But I recognize now that my first kiss isn't really an important moment in the big picture of my life.


What it all comes down to, is I am annoyed at someone that feels they are entitled to something. He lost most of his bankroll and he felt that he was entitled to keeping it. None of us deserve to win money, none of us deserve not to lose everything we have. Entitlement is, overall, a fallacious concept. It's a very intuitive concept but it's simply dead wrong--"justice" doesn't exist.

This post probably sucks because I'm extremely tired right now, but I have to go to bed because I have a plane to catch in 12 hours. I'll reply to this thread when I can, but that might be >24 hours from now.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Its obvious that the idiot that posted:

"thousands of people died, quit whining about losing a few Benjamins."

is indeed, an idiot, stop posting here and get back to ssnl. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for actually reading my post in context and giving my thoughts fair consideration. I'll try to do the same for you in the future, [censored].

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
stop posting here and get back to ssnl. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif I've been meaning to do that, I haven't posted much of anywhere at all in the last month or so (first month of my junior year!) but I'm phasing back in... see ya soon =)

It is not a good idea to play tilted or depressed. It will have an adverse impact on your EV. If it gets you out of tilt or depression, there is nothing wrong with using the Law of Contrast to turn your negative feelings to more positive ones. You don't have to dwell on it either. Once you're out of the tilted or depressed feelings, then you can look for other means to stay in a more positive frame of mind.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Consider the reverse case; should we not be happy to win a poker tournament because someone else somewhere won the lottery?

[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps we shouldn't, but not because someone else won the lottery. Maybe we shouldn't be too happy about it because winning a poker tournament is mostly a function of variance--the same as me having a 100 BB upswing in LHE. By recognizing that luck is a huge factor in my wins and losses I am able to keep a more even keel emotionally. If I thought that every pot I won was due to my skill and every pot I lost was due to my lack of skill, I would go crazy in short order.

[/ QUOTE ]

While this is true, this doesn't particularly address the issue at hand; my post was about your comparison to the hurricane. If you're suggesting another explanation for why we should dampen our emotions, that's fine, but it doesn't really fit into this debate, right?

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Should we not be happy about a first kiss or a new discovery because someone else just got married or won a Nobel prize?

[/ QUOTE ]
Why should we be happy about these things? They are both largely a function of chaos. For every scientist that wins the nobel prize, aren't there hundreds (or maybe thousands?) more scientists out there that have dedicated their lives just as much to the discovery of knowledge? Should we be happy because we just got our first kiss? Sure we will feel euphoric at the time. But I recognize now that my first kiss isn't really an important moment in the big picture of my life.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an awfully fatalistic view of life, now, isn't it!

While I cannot dispute what you are saying as incorrect thinking, it doesn't coincide with the way the world works. Example: the scientists. Sure, the guy who finally cracked the project that 100 scientists were working on for years was probably 'lucky' and it was probably the result of chaos, but he's going to be rich and famous for the rest of his life while the others aren't; can't the reason for his future fame and wealth (namely: intellect as well as a great contribution from circumstance) be the same cause of his own happiness?

Aside from that results-oriented example, though, I don't agree with you on this point at a fundamental level; I think there is an inherent contradiction in your thought process here.

By your logic (and I hope I'm not misinterpreting), chaos governs all and we shouldn't be overly happy to win a poker hand or to make a scientific discovery because it's all part of the grand ebb-and-flow...

... but then we shouldn't care about the hurricane victims either for the same reason, right?

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
It is not a good idea to play tilted or depressed. It will have an adverse impact on your EV. If it gets you out of tilt or depression, there is nothing wrong with using the Law of Contrast to turn your negative feelings to more positive ones. You don't have to dwell on it either. Once you're out of the tilted or depressed feelings, then you can look for other means to stay in a more positive frame of mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Either you responded to the wrong post, or you made a very very thickly-veiled poker analogy that doesn't make any sense.

[jkkkk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its obvious that the idiot that posted:

"thousands of people died, quit whining about losing a few Benjamins."

is indeed, an idiot, stop posting here and get back to ssnl. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for actually reading my post in context and giving my thoughts fair consideration. I'll try to do the same for you in the future, [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, the previous statement you made falls short of logic, I accept it was probably just a heated statement and nothing more, you probably know this too.

Don't take me too seriously. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
By your logic (and I hope I'm not misinterpreting), chaos governs all and we shouldn't be overly happy to win a poker hand or to make a scientific discovery because it's all part of the grand ebb-and-flow...

... but then we shouldn't care about the hurricane victims either for the same reason, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
Just woke up, I apologize for not having time to digest your post thoroughly right now.

I will say this:
I believe there are reasons to be happy, but success is a bad reason to be happy. If someone values himself/gets his happiness/contentment/enjoyment out of success he will be miserable with himself when he fails. There's a problem there.

The second thing is that there is really no reason to feel sorry for yourself. This is a destructive thing that no good can come of. It's also exactly what the OP in the other thread was doing, and why I was so perturbed at him.

[revots33]

I am not a philosophy expert. But common sense tells me that complaining about busting out of a poker tournament while other people have just drowned to death/lost everything they have, is more than a little bit self-centered.

I'm not saying that to put anyone down. I know I've done the same thing myself. I think as human beings we all overstimate the importance of our own problems. Innocent children ARE starving to death in many parts of the world right now. Women are being tortured and gang-raped in the genocide in Darfur. Thousands drowned to death in New Orleans. These are all things worth remembering the next time we want to bitch about our AA hand getting cracked.

Does that mean we no longer have the right to complain about anything? No. But I think it's helpful to step back and realize how lucky most of us really are. Many people on this planet would give anything to have a bad run at poker be their biggest problem.

[Georgia Avenue]

[ QUOTE ]
Does that mean we no longer have the right to complain about anything? No. But I think it's helpful to step back and realize how lucky most of us really are. Many people on this planet would give anything to have a bad run at poker be their biggest problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually this is why we should never complain about anything. I don't mean we shouldn't try to solve problems in our lives, or our games, but complaining never did that.

On the other hand, sometimes we can't help but blow off steam by whining and twirling plush seat-backs and screamin DAAAAA and etc. So in terms of the dt vs einbert debate, I would say that einbert is right in his big picture perspective, but dt is correct to say that reminding people that their small problems are smaller than others is kinda rude, and serves even less purpose than complaining.

SO they're both right. Yaaaay. KITTENS. (http://www.dinigroup.com/~atinsley/kittens/week4/dscn1822_l.jpg)

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not a philosophy expert. But common sense tells me that complaining about busting out of a poker tournament while other people have just drowned to death/lost everything they have, is more than a little bit self-centered.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, it's self-centered; I maintain that everything we do on a daily basis is equally self-centered.

Example:

- buying any luxury item, where luxury is defined as "not essential to life"
- complaining about anything
- dedicating time to anything but curing cancer and solving world hunger

[Triumph36]

People are drowning and losing everything they own every day.

It's a sad situation in New Orleans - it's a sad situation around the world.

It's one thing to be grateful for what you have - it's another thing to use a tragedy to dull your own pain, which is what it sounds like some here are advocating. There's two sides to taking that far-reaching perspective, the one of gratitude and a reveling in your own irrelevance - or the callous "well, i've got it bad, but they've got it worse" - showing no gratitude for anything and selfishly using other people's suffering to prop up one's own mistakes.

I don't know if I'm quite getting across the point I want to.

[Lestat]

How can one oppose your argument? It's 100% correct. However...

Disasters such as these do put things into perspective. I went on an 11k slide last week in poker. I was feeling pretty darn pissed about it. But you know what? I watched and heard some of the stories coming out of NO and I realized there are worse things than losing 11k.

Numerous times I've heard sports coaches, announcers, and players reiterate the same thing after a major calamity about their respective sports. It's only a game they say, and what we do is really insignificant in the scheme of things. Of course, they are right as well.

So while whoever this guy was (I didn't read his post), he was probably out of line to come on a poker forum and say what he did. It's not his place to do so. But in a way, I'll bet we can all agree he's got a point.