Ordinary Joes who don't understand Poker

Guys I have a problem and it really is eating me up, it's a problem I have with my friends and some of my family. I try to explain to them that Poker is not completely a game of luck that skill takes its toll in it.


The funny thing is, I can consistently make money playing the game and they SEE THIS!!


I explain pot odds to them and of course the correct odds to chase. I try to tell them about basic strategy. I even tell them, "yes Poker would be a game of luck, if you weren't allowed to fold."


What can I do here to convince these guys that Poker is infact moreso a skill game than luck?

Also most of the people I'm talking about know about the game, but have never played it.


Here is the problem, because I am so proud of myself playing poker and being pretty good at it, I always like to talk about it, I always bring it up. I think this irritates them a little too for the fact that they have to get their ass up to go to work and see how easlily I make money playing poker and it annoys them.


What can i do to simply help convince these mutts that poker is a game of skill and not completely luck, in such words that an ORDINARY JOE would understand.


I use examples like, Picture yourself in a sprint race for about 40 yards, everyone lines up at the starting line, but instead you have lined up 10 yards in and have a head start, now you have the best chance of coming in first. I attribute that to lining up 10 yards in front when you are playing hold'em and have Pocket AA before the flop.


Another example I use is the stock market, I ask them, "are there people out there that make money trading a selling stock?" There answer is immediately YES!! I say to them well that is what I am in a sense doing, I am investing my money in hands that have strong potential like a strong company. Then when the flop comes out, I decided if I want to sell my company because the future forecast looks very bad for instance you have QQ and the flop is AK9 or keep it and keep investing in it if the flop comes Q 4 8.


With these examples given they still don't see it. I think it's complete stubborness. Also when my Mom comes into my room and sees me playin online Poker, she says...."how much money are you up?" I tell her it doesn't matter, what she should really be asking me is, "How well are you playing?". Then I tell her, " VERY GOOD!"

How would proving to non-players that poker is a game of skill, and that you therefore are not wasting your time, impact your ability to play well? If you were able to convince everyone to be understanding and agreeable to your poker playing, how specifically would this affect your long-term EV?


What I'm getting at, Mikey, is that if the "average Joe's" non-understanding, non-respecting, and non-sympathizing with your poker playing is not affecting how well you play, you really do not have a problem, don't you.


At least not a poker problem. A relationship problem may be. But not a poker problem. /images/smile.gif

"Also when my Mom comes into my room.."


Living at home in your mom's house probably doesn't contribute to your friends feeling.


Just don't discuss it with your friends. If they think its luck, fine, tell them you're the worlds luckiest guy. Then go and do whatever you and your friends want to do.

Poker is still gambling to the world. No matter how cool it seems to be earning money in our own bedroom while our freinds slave away at a job, it is still gambling to them.


When I first started, I too wanted to share my new found love for the game and how smart I felt out manuvering people. But we forget that the only reason it's so cool to us, is because we understand. Therefore people that dont understand, dont care.


I like to figure my poker playing as my secret life, as crazy as that sounds. My day job is teaching music in a public school, which to me, also doesn't feel like a job. With the image I have to keep as a public servant, I can't appear to be a "gamlber" in the eyes of the school or community. Therefore I live "Two" lives. I would much rather be told I played a dificult hand great by a fellow poker player, then try to force people to be envious of me who dont understand.


Dont bother with the ordinary Joes. They dont need to understand.


Kevin

I understand exactly how you feel. Just the other day my boyfriend's mother commented on how much it must be costing for me to play poker so much. And also how can I afford not to work. My best friend commented to my boyfriend on how poker was a lazy person's way to make money. I think the only negative thing about poker is people's judgemental attitude towards it. Their lack of the average person being able to understand how it can be profitable is what makes the game profitable. Thank goodness everyone doesn't understand it the way we do. I think the reason why we get upset by other people is because we do put so much effort into our play and we really are doing a great job at what we do. We not only don't get the recognition we deserve, we actually get criticized and looked down upon. Then we start scrambling to try to make them understand concepts in one conversation that without the background knowledge we have would be impossible for the average person to understand. Add that to the fact that they don't want to try to understand in the first place, since they already believe they are right and you are wrong.


Don't let these people get to you. We know and that's all that matters.

because we aren't just poker players. hopefully, most of us have relations with other humans besides poker players. and we want to be able to relate with these people well. a predisposition towards disrespect to another person's livelihood is NOT a good basis for a relationship with that person.


blah blah blah...


what im getting at is that, its really hard when your girlfriend thinks that you are throwing away hard-earned money at something that:


a) she doesn't understand

b) isn't with her

c) isn't on her

d) is likely, in her eyes, to be a losing proposition.

and e) (this applies to me specifically.) she is a poor struggling art student who doesn't see mathematical probability as something that applies to where your dollars go, or gambling.


see, a lot of people don't realize that there is a mathematical side to wagering. they figure that, since casinos are in business, they must win. therefore their patrons must lose. therefore, you must not be able to win when you wager. therefore, any wagering at a casino is destined to be a losing proposition. but these people don't make the link that it is a mathematical situation. there is some deterministic-fatalism in the back of their heads that tells them, in essence, 'gambling = bad'. and that's as far as they are willing to open their head up to the subject. so, they may even listen when you try to explain things like odds and skill gaps to them. they may even consciously grasp what you are saying. but they will not let it get to them. they will continue to think you are clueless. so don't even bring poker up with these people. you'll find that if they aren't interested, they'll never ask, and you can avoid a whole complicated bag of worms. if they really want to know, they'll ask. then you can answer their questions. and if there is confrontation, hey, they brought it up, not you.


wow, i sure can ramble on subjects i think about all the time.