Just got pulled over while walking

[DavidC]

4am this evening, my buddy and I were walking and talking. We do this maybe 3-5 times a week, depending on availability and amount of stuff to talk about. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

We tend to get pulled over a lot, which is both time consuming and stressful, but understandable. Basically, walking at night is atypical and therefore cops will pull you over just for being outside. It bugs me, but it's life.

BTW, I live in Canada.

About a month ago I read an article in The Post about a case heard by the Nation Supreme Court: a boy, aged 15, in Edmonton had been pulled over by cops and searched. It was found that there was no basis for their arrest or their search, and the charges (Marijuana possession) were overturned.

Furthermore, in the article it stated that the legal definition of arrest, in Canada, is (approximately) "any time that you either can not leave in the presense of a police officer or feel as though you can not leave."

(I'm sure this can be expanded to consider civilian arrest.)

So, being sick and tired of being pulled over all the time, I decided to try this out.

------------------------------------------

A police car pulled up to us, we walked over and I said, "Good evening officer."

He asked where we were going and I replied, "No comment." He asked where we were coming from and I again replied, "No comment."

He got pretty pissed, saying that if there were two people out walking at 4am there'd better be a comment, and that we were required to give him answers and stuff. I basically kept to my "no comment" line during this exchange, even though he was swearing at us and calling us "dicks".

I was pretty surprised by the lack of professionalism and the amount of confrontation shown by the officer (whereas I was being really polite and my expression was really neutral).

He got out of his car nearly immediately. He asked me at one point to take my hands out of my pockets. I don't think they're legally allowed to command you to do this, but because I didn't want him to feel as though he was in physical danger, I obliged him.

Near the very start of the conversation, he asked me to put my hands on the hood of the squad car. I looked him in the eyes and basically explained that I felt uncomfortable with the situation, that I wanted to leave, that the legal definition of arrest is whether or not I can leave or if I feel as though I can't leave, and asked if I could leave. He said no. I asked if I was under arrest. He said no. He asked if I was in Law and Securities at school, I replied "No comment." He asked if I worked, I replied, "No comment."

He again called us dicks for not answering questions and not allowing him to "investigate a complaint" (we'd seen no one during our walk, so we're not sure if there really was one), and not identifying ourselves. He'd never asked that, so I told him that I'd be willing to identify myself.

He asked if I had ID and I said no, (legally, you're only required to give them your name and address, and in practice you generally wait for them to run the information through their system). He took down our names and called it in. I mentioned that I hadn't seen anyone and asked him if there was someone he was looking for. He replied, "How about this? No comment."

After our named came back that indeed we were citizens of Canada and such, he let us go, not before lecturing us (calling us dicks multiple times during this lecture) on not being dicks, basically. I told him that he shouldn't talk like that and that he should conduct himself professionally. He started to say something but stopped, and I further stated that I was a citizen, and was conducting myself as a citizen, but that he was a professional. He told us to leave, and I told him (again, politely) to have a good night as we left.

I swear to God there were no mocking tones used. I was pretty nervous: enough that I almost cracked a smile once because of the adrenaline, but I managed to keep it down and keep my face neutral the whole time.

So, if you're in Canada, and you're pulled over, unless you've been caught doing something retarded (and would therefore be looking for leniency), this is a decent MO if you feel as though your privacy has been invaded and don't particularly desire to co-operate.

I see it as having negative consequences if at a later date you require assistance from the police and they won't give it to you, which could happen, or if they catch you later and decide to max the fines or whatnot on whatever they can.

It took a while, but not much longer than a standard interview (at least, not much longer than an interview in which they take and process your ID).

--Dave.

[chuddo]

im a moran that can't read too good and posted thinking you didn't take your hands out of your pockets.

[LBJ]

[ QUOTE ]
so, you were a bit of a dick?

i am not a fan of mosts cops i have had to deal with, but i think that asking you to take your hands out of your pockets is a fairly understandable request.

[/ QUOTE ]

He obliged when the PO asked him to take his hands out of his pockets.

[Eurotrash]

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/9738/cruisejerk4ol.png



That's incredibly rude. You're a jerk...


you're a jerk!

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
im a moran that can't read too good and posted thinking you didn't take your hands out of your pockets.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif I only wish I got to see your first reply! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Yeah, I don't think I HAD to do that, but it wouldn't have been nice to keep them there.

Also, at some point he asked what was in my pocket (largish square), if it was a wallet or smokes or whatever, and I showed him gum. Again, I didn't have to, but I was just being polite.

[chuddo]

my initial reply is quoted above. else i wouldn't have deleted it.

[Weatherhead03]

I am going to take this idea for a spin the next time a Cop pulls me over for nothing. I am 18 years old canadian like yourself and its a hassel to be pulled over if you are seen walking at night especially if you have not done anything out of the ordinary.

[irishpint]

this is really awesome.

Awesome /images/graemlins/laugh.gif


p.s. -EV

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Awesome /images/graemlins/laugh.gif


p.s. -EV

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh hell yeah. If I get caught for speeding or whatever, I'm screwwed. But it felt pretty good at the same time.

[AdamL]

Yeah, the guy was really looking for a fight or something. He's not the first police officer I've met with an ego the size of Mount Everest, but he's the first one to be so flamboyant about it.

Here's my report, being sent to the police for review...

At or close to 3:30am (DavidC) and myself were walking home from Tim Hortons when a police car crossed the road and pulled over to question us.

The officer asked us what we were doing and where we were going. While his reasons for asking us are completely understandable, we declined to comment on our personal business but volunteered our names and addresses instead. We used a steady, calm and cooperative tone and neutral body language. At this point the two police officers got out of the car and officer #xxxx said “What the hell is your problem?” David said: “We don’t have a problem, I just don’t want to comment on where I’m going”. The officer said, “Well why not? What are you doing?” David said, “We’re walking.”

We stated our full names and asked if we could leave now, and he said “No”. I asked if we were under arrest, he said “No.” I asked him what would happen if we left, he said “I’d arrest you and bring you to the station.” I have no idea what charge we could be arrested for after giving our names and asking to leave.

We offered our names and addresses, but he wasn’t enthusiastic to write it down until he had called David an “[censored]” and a “dick” several times.

At this point the officer attempted to search us, asking us to put our hands on the hood of the vehicle. David said, “Officer, this situation is very upsetting for me, and I feel as though I am not allowed to leave. May I leave?” He said “No you may not.” David asked, “Am I under arrest?” The officer said no. David said, “If I am not able to leave, that means I am under arrest, doesn’t it?” The officer replied, “Are you guys in law or security?” David replied “No.”

The officer then moved behind the police car to call in our personal information. The officer ran a background check on our names we had given him. David mentioned he hadn’t seen anyone and asked if they were looking for somebody. The officer said, “Hey David, how about this: no comment” in a sarcastic tone.

After the background check we again asked if we could leave and the officer said “No, and let me tell you something…” He then started giving us a hard time for not telling him where we were going, and again started calling us “dicks”. I don’t think we needed to be insulted for our choice of not volunteering personal information. Nor should we be held under duress so that he can give us a piece of his mind.

I asked the officer not to call us dicks or assholes, and he said he could do whatever he wanted and that if I didn’t like it, I could file a complaint. I asked him for his name, he gave me his last name and badge number. I asked if he had a card or could write it down, and his response was “What, don’t you have a brain?”

Shortly thereafter we were permitted to leave.

[AdamL]

BTW, For what it's worth, I completely understand how our behaviour and declining to comment could be stressful and annoying for the police. I also don't intend to do it in the future, although I'm not necessarily going to volunteer my personal business either.

The impresive thing about the experience was how the officer lost it, and the legal eggshells of holding us under duress to insult us.

[Brainwalter]

It's noble work you're doing.

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]
this is really awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

[wheelz]

[ QUOTE ]
He again called us dicks for not answering questions and not allowing him to "investigate a complaint"

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm also in Canada, whenever this happens to me and my friends we always get some bs like "yeah I thought you were maybe going to rob that house over there" or something too. I guess they just make something up as a reason for why they wanted to talk to you.

[Transference]

Hey guys, I dig your little experiment.

In the US this encounter is known as a stop. Law Enforcement can stop you based on reasonable suspicion and detain you to breifly question you. I know at least some states have laws requiring that you identify yourself if stopped, but reasonable suspicion is still required for the stop in the first place. You have been clearly stopped or "seized" when the cop told you youd be arrested if you walked away. They can ask to remove your hands from your pockets for their safety, and even sometimes frisk you during a legitimate stop. Arrest requires probable cause, refusal to answer questions in itself is not enough for this.

Incorrectly telling you that you must answer questions is coercive and not allowed, if you have the right to refuse to answer or to leave they must answer your questions correctly. Your not necessarily under arrest if you are detained, but they cannot move you beyond a short distance and cannot detain your for an extended period of time.

Cooperating is good because they can't hold you any longer if the stop fails to confirm suspicions, but if youve got something to hide he best thing is usually just to STFU. These guys were definately out of line at the very least by insulting you and you should report them.

[DavidC]

Oy... I hope you don't mind if I take this apart a bit.

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, the guy was really looking for a fight or something. He's not the first police officer I've met with an ego the size of Mount Everest, but he's the first one to be so flamboyant about it.

Here's my report, being sent to the police for review...

At or close to 3:30am (DavidC) and myself were walking home from Tim Hortons when a police car crossed the road and pulled over to question us.

The officer asked us what we were doing and where we were going. While his reasons for asking us are completely understandable, we declined to comment on our personal business but volunteered our names and addresses instead. We used a steady, calm and cooperative tone and neutral body language. At this point the two police officers got out of the car and officer #xxxx said “What the hell is your problem?” David said: “We don’t have a problem, I just don’t want to comment on where I’m going”. The officer said, “Well why not? What are you doing?” David said, “We’re walking.”


[/ QUOTE ]

Upon re-reading, I now see that you didn't send the "Mt Everest" line to the PD. Good stuff. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Also, I don't remember saying we're walking. In the confusion, I may have, but I specifically attempted to avoid saying this, as I was trying to be minimally co-operative.

[ QUOTE ]

We stated our full names and asked if we could leave now, and he said “No”. I asked if we were under arrest, he said “No.” I asked him what would happen if we left, he said “I’d arrest you and bring you to the station.” I have no idea what charge we could be arrested for after giving our names and asking to leave.

We offered our names and addresses, but he wasn’t enthusiastic to write it down until he had called David an “[censored]” and a “dick” several times.

At this point the officer attempted to search us, asking us to put our hands on the hood of the vehicle. David said, “Officer, this situation is very upsetting for me, and I feel as though I am not allowed to leave. May I leave?” He said “No you may not.” David asked, “Am I under arrest?” The officer said no. David said, “If I am not able to leave, that means I am under arrest, doesn’t it?” The officer replied, “Are you guys in law or security?” David replied “No.”

The officer then moved behind the police car to call in our personal information. The officer ran a background check on our names we had given him. David mentioned he hadn’t seen anyone and asked if they were looking for somebody. The officer said, “Hey David, how about this: no comment” in a sarcastic tone.

After the background check we again asked if we could leave and the officer said “No, and let me tell you something…” He then started giving us a hard time for not telling him where we were going, and again started calling us “dicks”. I don’t think we needed to be insulted for our choice of not volunteering personal information. Nor should we be held under duress so that he can give us a piece of his mind.

I asked the officer not to call us dicks or assholes, and he said he could do whatever he wanted and that if I didn’t like it, I could file a complaint. I asked him for his name, he gave me his last name and badge number.

[/ QUOTE ]

It should be worth nothing too things here.

1) I think he said his first name. It was one syllable, and he said it quickly, but I thought I heard something... though if his last name was McXXX, then it could have been "Mc" that I heard, but I don't think so.

2) He pointed to his badge, said the number, but (I believe, accidentally) held his finger over all but the first number. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't think that was his fault (because he couldn't see that he was doing it), but it wasn't as helpful as it could have been.

Don't forget that you asked him for a card or to write it down, and he said that if we had a brain, we could remember it.

What a dick, by the way. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I don't know why the OPP insists on hiring dumb jocks as police officers, but that seems to be the pattern in recent years / among younger police officers... maybe the younger guys are always dumb jocks, but as they get older they become more calm, I'm not sure, but the middle-aged police officers I've dealt with have been much easier.

[ QUOTE ]

I asked if he had a card or could write it down, and his response was “What, don’t you have a brain?”


[/ QUOTE ]

... /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[ QUOTE ]

Shortly thereafter we were permitted to leave.

[/ QUOTE ]

We were TOLD to leave. He said, "On your way."

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He again called us dicks for not answering questions and not allowing him to "investigate a complaint"

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm also in Canada, whenever this happens to me and my friends we always get some bs like "yeah I thought you were maybe going to rob that house over there" or something too. I guess they just make something up as a reason for why they wanted to talk to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's something interesting:

Unless the owner of a property complains of your presence on that property, you're not trespassing. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I either approached a police officer one day, or perhaps called the station, to ask about a cruiser that was parked the wrong way in a one-way entrance to a plaza at night, looking to catch speeders. That's what they told me (that unless the owner of the property complained, it was permissable).

Therefore, keep this in mind if you're harassed while talking in a mall parking lot or something like that.

By-laws are the exception to this, of course, but those are always civil, afaik, and would only result in a fine.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys, I dig your little experiment.

In the US this encounter is known as a stop. Law Enforcement can stop you based on reasonable suspicion and detain you to breifly question you. I know at least some states have laws requiring that you identify yourself if stopped, but reasonable suspicion is still required for the stop in the first place. You have been clearly stopped or "seized" when the cop told you youd be arrested if you walked away. They can ask to remove your hands from your pockets for their safety, and even sometimes frisk you during a legitimate stop. Arrest requires probable cause, refusal to answer questions in itself is not enough for this.

Incorrectly telling you that you must answer questions is coercive and not allowed, if you have the right to refuse to answer or to leave they must answer your questions correctly. Your not necessarily under arrest if you are detained, but they cannot move you beyond a short distance and cannot detain your for an extended period of time.

Cooperating is good because they can't hold you any longer if the stop fails to confirm suspicions, but if youve got something to hide he best thing is usually just to STFU. These guys were definately out of line at the very least by insulting you and you should report them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm of the opinion that if you're ever caught doing anything, then you have one of two lines:

1) Talk to the cops and try for mercy.

2) STFU and don't say a damn word until your lawyer is present. Nothing at all... basically this gives your lawyer the best chance to save your dumb ass. Watching shows about real crime investigations has shown me that this is the best way to go.

FWIW, I haven't committed any serious crimes, and once the cops pulled me over to ask if I'd seen a few kids in the area, and I told them what direction they'd headed (they were minors out past curfew and their parents were anxious). So I'm not trying to be a prick or anything, but when there isn't a good reason for it, I'm not going to let these guys disrupt my evening without disrupting theirs.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Good, don't let him run you over. Reminds me of the constructive dialogue when I was arrested on the airport in Belarus. First:

5 guys with machine guns: You have broken this and this rules. We have proof. You are under arrest.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong
5 guys with machine guns: You have broken this and this rules. We have proof. You are under arrest.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.
5 guys with machine guns: You have broken this and this rules. We have proof. You are under arrest.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.
5 guys with machine guns: You have broken this and this rules. We have proof. You are under arrest.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.

etc. etc.

KGB-officer with better English arrives. Dialogue goes as follows:
KGB-officer: You have broken this and this rules. We have proof. You are under arrest.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.
KGB-officer: We have proof.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.
KGB-officer: We have proof.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.
KGB-officer: We have proof.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.
KGB-officer: We have proof.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.

etc. etc.

KGB-officer: You are free to leave, but if you break these rules again in future you will be in trouble.
Arnfinn: See you later.
KGB-officer: Have a nice trip. Sorry for the problems (!).

Upon which she followed me through every checkpoint, the guards tried to check me, but she just told everyone to back off, so that I did not have to show either my luggage or passport or anything.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Good, don't let him run you over. Reminds me of the constructive dialogue when I was arrested on the airport in Belarus. First:

5 guys with machine guns: You have broken this and this rules. We have proof. You are under arrest.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong
5 guys with machine guns: You have broken this and this rules. We have proof. You are under arrest.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.
5 guys with machine guns: You have broken this and this rules. We have proof. You are under arrest.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.
5 guys with machine guns: You have broken this and this rules. We have proof. You are under arrest.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.

etc. etc.

KGB-officer with better English arrives. Dialogue goes as follows:
KGB-officer: You have broken this and this rules. We have proof. You are under arrest.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.
KGB-officer: We have proof.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.
KGB-officer: We have proof.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.
KGB-officer: We have proof.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.
KGB-officer: We have proof.
Arnfinn: No, I haven't done anything wrong.

etc. etc.

KGB-officer: You are free to leave, but if you break these rules again in future you will be in trouble.
Arnfinn: See you later.
KGB-officer: Have a nice trip. Sorry for the problems (!).

Upon which she followed me through every checkpoint, the guards tried to check me, but she just told everyone to back off, so that I did not have to show either my luggage or passport or anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's bloody scary!

[RunDownHouse]

I guess I was the only one that thought this was pretty stupid?

Yes, he was unprofessional and an [censored]... but you really were being a dick. I got the feeling that you would have pulled your little stunt regardless of his attitude, and that's wrong for a variety of reasons.

I think its worth explaining worself if the alternative is police never questioning suspiscious activity. I think you just wasted 20 minutes of his time so you could feel like a big, swinging dick. I think that, even if you were dead set on playing this little prank, you could have handled it better.

[jakethebake]

You crazy Canadians.

[Transference]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I was the only one that thought this was pretty stupid?

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand your point but I like the story for a couple reasons.

One is that people rarely bother to ask what their rights are. Even people who can't stand cops tend to turn into sheep when anyone in a uniform starts asking them questions or telling them what to do. Stories like this at least get people thinking a little, sometimes cops are investigating a legitmate concern, but sometimes their abusing their power and sometimes you can get yourself into trouble when you don't have to and/or you shouldnt be.

Second things like this expose major weaknesses in law enfrocement training. There are many ways this could have been handled by the cops better. After OP said no comment they could have explained the reason they asked or why they were stopped. They could have expressed concern that they would get where they were going safetly. Hell, they could have said you know what, you don't have to tell me anything put im trying to protect the people of this neighborhood and as a courtesy to them and to me help me out.

Instead the cops got beligerant and turned what could have been a freindly encounter into a nasty one. Now people think the cops are dicks, the cop think people are dicks and things can just escalate.

Probably if this is reported nothing will happen, maybe just a slap on the wrist. If many people make similar reports hopefully at some point the agency will reevaluate their standards and training.

The best thing is to take some time and actually learn what your rights are, but if you are stopped I think people should tactfully be sure that the are treated fairly and respectfully while protecting their privacy.

[Alobar]

There was a similiar thread to this like a month back, that resulting in some very awesome discussion IMO. After that thread I decided that if I ever get hassled for absoultely no good reason at all (i.e. a situation similiar to yours) that I would take the same line of action you did. Good stuff.

And yeah, I would DEFINATELY file a report or make some sort of complaint, as the way he acted was just total bullshit. I know all cops arent like that, but he really goes to show exactly why the steroetype that cops are nothing more than bullies with a badge, exists.

[touchfaith]

[ QUOTE ]
4am this evening

[/ QUOTE ]

4am is morning, not evening.

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I live in Canada.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait...maybe not.

[HopeydaFish]

I think what you did was commendable. As one of the other posters said, there was a long discussion of this issue about a month or so ago. At the time, I was surprised by how many people were willing to act like sheep and give up their rights to the police.

Btw...since you didn't get the police officer's badge number or his name, nothing will come of this. Because this was a "minor" infraction on the officer's part, his superiors will claim that they can't do anything without a name or a badge number. It'll be the blue wall of silence.

If and when his superiors won't do anything, you can make a complaint to the police services civilian review board (I live in Ontario too). They'll be little more cooperative and helpful. A friend of mine accidentally cut off a police officer when he was pulling out onto the street. The police officer flipped out, sped around my friend and then cut him off to force a stop of my friend's vehicle. The officer then leapt from his vehicle with his gun drawn and ordered my friend to exit his vehicle. The officer was enraged at having been cut off and was totally out of control.

When my friend complained to the police, they gave him the run around and claimed that there was no evidence of wrongdoing on the officer's part (even though my friend had provided a name of an impartial witness who happened to be walking by when this went down). He filed a complaint with the civilian review board and they are now investigating.

[TheBlueMonster]

He called you 'dicks' just like the Canadians in "South Park?"





/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[afk]

Yikes what city do you live in? I'm out walking relatively often at those hours (either by myself, with my girlfriend or other friends) and I've never once been bothered.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

Giving cops a hard time is -EV.

Here are the options:

1) Be nice to the guy, answer his questions, continue your walk in peace.

2) Be a nit, give the guy a hard time and hope he doesn't make life difficult for you just because he can.

Bottom line: The cop was wrong. He was being a dick, and should not have done so (assuming the OP is retelling the events accurately). Nonetheless, only bad things can come of being a nit to a cop.

I've gotten out of several well-deserved tickets just by being a nice guy (someones gonna FYP this one, I'm sure) and bantering pleasantly with the cop. They are so used to nits like you that they cut me some slack for being a nice guy.

[Riskwise]

[ QUOTE ]
4am this evening, my buddy and I were walking and talking. We do this maybe 3-5 times a week, depending on availability and amount of stuff to talk about. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I live in Canada.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe you should consider San Fran where this is a normallity...

[HitHard69]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys, I dig your little experiment.

In the US this encounter is known as a stop. Law Enforcement can stop you based on reasonable suspicion and detain you to breifly question you.


[/ QUOTE ]
It's actually called a Terry Stop (From Terry v. Ohio) Any reasonable suspicion and the officer can stop you, question you, detain you, and if he feels he/she is in danger, frisk search. Not a full search but just a quick check for weapons.

As to your situation, the officer shouldn't have called you guys dicks, but you two shouldn't have acted like them either. A simple "On our way back from getting some donuts" would have been fine. This guy was just doing his job.

One other side note...Not sure how old you guys are/look, or if there is a curfew in Canada for minors, but here in the US (atleast Illinois) if an officer has a reason to believe you are out past legal curfew, you must produce a valid ID/proof of age.

[Brainwalter]

[ QUOTE ]
Giving cops a hard time is -EV.

Here are the options:

1) Be nice to the guy, answer his questions, continue your walk in peace.

2) Be a nit, give the guy a hard time and hope he doesn't make life difficult for you just because he can.

Bottom line: The cop was wrong. He was being a dick, and should not have done so (assuming the OP is retelling the events accurately). Nonetheless, only bad things can come of being a nit to a cop.

I've gotten out of several well-deserved tickets just by being a nice guy (someones gonna FYP this one, I'm sure) and bantering pleasantly with the cop. They are so used to nits like you that they cut me some slack for being a nice guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference here is they didn't do anything wrong, and didn't well-deserve a ticket or even to be stopped.

Of course if you have done something wrong and they have evidence you are at the mercy of the officer and should conduct yourself accordingly.

[ChipWrecked]

You shouldn't jerk off while you drive anyway.

Ohhhhhh.... walking..... I thought you said "Pulled over while wanking."

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
I think what you did was commendable. As one of the other posters said, there was a long discussion of this issue about a month or so ago. At the time, I was surprised by how many people were willing to act like sheep and give up their rights to the police.


[/ QUOTE ]

Does anyone have a link to this? I'd love to read it. A phrase in the subject line of the post would be just fine too.

[ QUOTE ]

Btw...since you didn't get the police officer's badge number or his name, nothing will come of this. Because this was a "minor" infraction on the officer's part, his superiors will claim that they can't do anything without a name or a badge number. It'll be the blue wall of silence.


[/ QUOTE ]

We have the number. Adam chose not to publish it here, which I support.

[ QUOTE ]


If and when his superiors won't do anything, you can make a complaint to the police services civilian review board (I live in Ontario too). They'll be little more cooperative and helpful. A friend of mine accidentally cut off a police officer when he was pulling out onto the street. The police officer flipped out, sped around my friend and then cut him off to force a stop of my friend's vehicle. The officer then leapt from his vehicle with his gun drawn and ordered my friend to exit his vehicle. The officer was enraged at having been cut off and was totally out of control.


[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus Christ man. I know these guys occassionally do stuff right too, but this thread isn't helping. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]


When my friend complained to the police, they gave him the run around and claimed that there was no evidence of wrongdoing on the officer's part (even though my friend had provided a name of an impartial witness who happened to be walking by when this went down). He filed a complaint with the civilian review board and they are now investigating.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks a lot for your support and information.

--Dave.

[Benal]

Was it the OPP that stopped you? Which city are you in?

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Yikes what city do you live in? I'm out walking relatively often at those hours (either by myself, with my girlfriend or other friends) and I've never once been bothered.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was in Whitby. The same has happened to me many times in Barrie, but I don't think in Newmarket or Belleville.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
(assuming the OP is retelling the events accurately)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm doing my best...

And you're right about this being -EV, but I'm a little fed up with being pulled over.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Giving cops a hard time is -EV.

Here are the options:

1) Be nice to the guy, answer his questions, continue your walk in peace.

2) Be a nit, give the guy a hard time and hope he doesn't make life difficult for you just because he can.

Bottom line: The cop was wrong. He was being a dick, and should not have done so (assuming the OP is retelling the events accurately). Nonetheless, only bad things can come of being a nit to a cop.

I've gotten out of several well-deserved tickets just by being a nice guy (someones gonna FYP this one, I'm sure) and bantering pleasantly with the cop. They are so used to nits like you that they cut me some slack for being a nice guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference here is they didn't do anything wrong, and didn't well-deserve a ticket or even to be stopped.

Of course if you have done something wrong and they have evidence you are at the mercy of the officer and should conduct yourself accordingly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Caveat: If it's something that it's within their power to overlook. If it's murder (for an extreme example), then STFU.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Was it the OPP that stopped you? Which city are you in?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was the OPP. I'm not sure.

Why do you ask?

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]

I've gotten out of several well-deserved tickets just by being a nice guy (someones gonna FYP this one, I'm sure) and bantering pleasantly with the cop. They are so used to nits like you that they cut me some slack for being a nice guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Being nice to get out of a traffic ticket is +EV. Letting a cop violate your rights while you're out walking late at night is -EV.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys, I dig your little experiment.

In the US this encounter is known as a stop. Law Enforcement can stop you based on reasonable suspicion and detain you to breifly question you.


[/ QUOTE ]
It's actually called a Terry Stop (From Terry v. Ohio) Any reasonable suspicion and the officer can stop you, question you, detain you, and if he feels he/she is in danger, frisk search. Not a full search but just a quick check for weapons.

[/ QUOTE ]

What constitutes a 'reasonable suspicion' is what is important. Walking back from Tim Horton's with coffee cups in your hand at 2am should not be deemed as being suspicious. Claiming 'Reasonable suspicion' does not give the cops carte blanche to violate your rights. At the very least, the cops would have to let you know what they 'reasonably suspect' that you are doing which allows them to search you.

[Benal]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Was it the OPP that stopped you? Which city are you in?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was the OPP. I'm not sure.

Why do you ask?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was under the impression that the OPP cannot stop you on municipal roads. Only on provencial roads/highways or in towns where there is no municipal police force can they stop you, but I may be wrong.

[HopeydaFish]

Sorry, from the OP I thought you hadn't gotten the number because the cop had covered his badge number with his finger and/or you didn't have paper to write the number down on. Having his badge number will help you out immensely.

Here's the link to the thread you asked for:

So I got arrested... (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3060500&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&fpart=1&vc=1)

[LethalRose]

Yea ive been "pulled over" while walking/running too. Its very odd. Apparently one time this guy saw me walking on the sidewalk and i was a little to close to his car, so of course i stole his radio. He called the cops and I was let go when the cop who I talked to is a good friend of my gf at the time (my gf's entire family including her works in local law enforcement) it was kinda funny..it helps to not look like a punk too.

Its also fun driving with her, she goes 20 over the limit at all times because she knows she wont get a ticket. +EV.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Was it the OPP that stopped you? Which city are you in?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was the OPP. I'm not sure.

Why do you ask?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was under the impression that the OPP cannot stop you on municipal roads. Only on provencial roads/highways or in towns where there is no municipal police force can they stop you, but I may be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they're permitted on any 400 series highway, and anywhere that isn't already serviced by a police force. They used to police my area (Kanata), but when we became part of Ottawa the Ottawa Police took over local policing. However, the OPP still patrols the 417 and 416 in Ottawa.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Was it the OPP that stopped you? Which city are you in?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was the OPP. I'm not sure.

Why do you ask?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was under the impression that the OPP cannot stop you on municipal roads. Only on provencial roads/highways or in towns where there is no municipal police force can they stop you, but I may be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whitby being a municipality, I don't think we have a local police force. I'm pretty sure we have an OPP station right in town, too. But don't quote me on that (I've EARNED the nickname Capt Oblivious). /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Was it the OPP that stopped you? Which city are you in?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was the OPP. I'm not sure.

Why do you ask?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was under the impression that the OPP cannot stop you on municipal roads. Only on provencial roads/highways or in towns where there is no municipal police force can they stop you, but I may be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whitby being a municipality, I don't think we have a local police force. I'm pretty sure we have an OPP station right in town, too. But don't quote me on that (I've EARNED the nickname Capt Oblivious). /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The OPP probably does the policing in your area, then. The OPP gets the dimmest bulbs -- these are the guys who couldn't get in with local police forces, and couldn't get in with the RCMP.

[Cumulonimbus]

I have enormous respect for anybody who knows their rights and applies them. It's amazing how many people would fold to that cop. Cheers!

[Benal]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Was it the OPP that stopped you? Which city are you in?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was the OPP. I'm not sure.

Why do you ask?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was under the impression that the OPP cannot stop you on municipal roads. Only on provencial roads/highways or in towns where there is no municipal police force can they stop you, but I may be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whitby being a municipality, I don't think we have a local police force. I'm pretty sure we have an OPP station right in town, too. But don't quote me on that (I've EARNED the nickname Capt Oblivious). /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like you do have a local force.

http://www.police.durham.on.ca

[ QUOTE ]
(I've EARNED the nickname Capt Oblivious).

[/ QUOTE ]

Your title says Supreme Nit.
Knowing your rights +EV
This play -EV

[scalf]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

how about being gratefuull for having police not scared to look into something that you admit is unusual...

think about it..

gl

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Niwa]

lmao.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Was it the OPP that stopped you? Which city are you in?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was the OPP. I'm not sure.

Why do you ask?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was under the impression that the OPP cannot stop you on municipal roads. Only on provencial roads/highways or in towns where there is no municipal police force can they stop you, but I may be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whitby being a municipality, I don't think we have a local police force. I'm pretty sure we have an OPP station right in town, too. But don't quote me on that (I've EARNED the nickname Capt Oblivious). /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like you do have a local force.

http://www.police.durham.on.ca

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. Now that I think of it, you're right. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TylerD]

you are a dick.

[AdamL]

[ QUOTE ]
you are a dick.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ummm, before you go ahead and join the police, you might want to consider that it is a citizens freedom in this country not to have to divulge personal information without charge. We are required by law to provide our name and address. We are not required to tell a police officer on a random stop why we are up at this hour, what we're doing, where we are going, where we are coming from, what our jobs are, etc.

I happen to think it's worth standing up for those rights once in a while. In the past when we have been fully cooperative and answered all these questions, the officers didn't believe us. "Just walking at 3am eh?" and they keep hammering, and called in our names regardless.

Understand it isn't like we are being asked with a pretty please and a cherry on top. It is an interrogation, without the least bit of courtesy or appreciation.

We also were being perfectly polite. Which is to say more than the officer was doing from the start.

I suspect this sort of crap happens to us because police aren't used to coming across young guys out walking at 3am who aren't causing trouble. But honestly, we don't need to be assumed guilty and harrased every time we're out, and if we choose not to give our autobiography, I don't think we need to be called dicks either.

[Punker]

[ QUOTE ]
I happen to think it's worth standing up for those rights once in a while

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not one of those onces in a while. I am rooting for your house to get robbed in the near future by someone who was "out walking" at 4 am.

I believe the police work hard and do their best to "protect and serve". If they want to feel a little godly, I don't have any objections to letting them have that, as long as they show up if I need help.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you are a dick.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ummm, before you go ahead and join the police, you might want to consider that it is a citizens freedom in this country not to have to divulge personal information without charge. We are required by law to provide our name and address. We are not required to tell a police officer on a random stop why we are up at this hour, what we're doing, where we are going, where we are coming from, what our jobs are, etc.

I happen to think it's worth standing up for those rights once in a while. In the past when we have been fully cooperative and answered all these questions, the officers didn't believe us. "Just walking at 3am eh?" and they keep hammering, and called in our names regardless.

Understand it isn't like we are being asked with a pretty please and a cherry on top. It is an interrogation, without the least bit of courtesy or appreciation.

We also were being perfectly polite. Which is to say more than the officer was doing from the start.

I suspect this sort of crap happens to us because police aren't used to coming across young guys out walking at 3am who aren't causing trouble. But honestly, we don't need to be assumed guilty and harrased every time we're out, and if we choose not to give our autobiography, I don't think we need to be called dicks either.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the US, I am well within my rights as a citizen to walk down the streets and call people by any vile epithet I want. Just because I am well within my rights does not mean I am not acting like a dick. The police acted reasonably in stopping you. You two decided to respond with "no comment." The officer then got upset and hurt your feelings by calling you a dick. You then posted the story here to show how you stood up to "the man." I'm not impressed with your story or your actions. Since you two acted like dicks people here on OOT are right to call you dicks. If you want sympathy, tell this story to your mom. She might care.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I've gotten out of several well-deserved tickets just by being a nice guy (someones gonna FYP this one, I'm sure) and bantering pleasantly with the cop. They are so used to nits like you that they cut me some slack for being a nice guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Being nice to get out of a traffic ticket is +EV. Letting a cop violate your rights while you're out walking late at night is -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

What rights are being violated? It's unusual for two guys to be about at that time, and, since the OP is not walking around with a scanner, he has no idea what may have transpired that night, such that a police officer would have reason to stop and ask him a few questions. He did nothing wrong, so why make a big stink about it? He wasn't being harassed, just answer the questions and be on your way.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys, I dig your little experiment.

In the US this encounter is known as a stop. Law Enforcement can stop you based on reasonable suspicion and detain you to breifly question you.


[/ QUOTE ]
It's actually called a Terry Stop (From Terry v. Ohio) Any reasonable suspicion and the officer can stop you, question you, detain you, and if he feels he/she is in danger, frisk search. Not a full search but just a quick check for weapons.

[/ QUOTE ]

What constitutes a 'reasonable suspicion' is what is important. Walking back from Tim Horton's with coffee cups in your hand at 2am should not be deemed as being suspicious. Claiming 'Reasonable suspicion' does not give the cops carte blanche to violate your rights. At the very least, the cops would have to let you know what they 'reasonably suspect' that you are doing which allows them to search you.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the OP was arrested, the cops would have to demonstrate they had "reasonable suspicion" or the charges would be dropped. My wife has won a number of cases with this argument.

[AdamL]

You don't know me.

I don't think the police were wrong to stop us. I think they were wrong to hold us under duress after we had given them our information just to insult us and be confrontational.

FYI, most police officers would agree.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't know me.

I don't think the police were wrong to stop us. I think they were wrong to hold us under duress after we had given them our information just to insult us and be confrontational.

FYI, most police officers would agree.

[/ QUOTE ]


If you would have simply said you were going for a walk and given your info instead of creating suspicion with your "no comment" stance the entire situation would have been avoided.

[ChoicestHops]

Sounds to me like you got pretty lucky. Especially that kid where his possession charge was dropped. All the cop had to do in that case was put on the arrest report that he smelled weed on the kid, thus giving him reason to search.

The cop seemed like a dick, but it could have been much worse.

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
This was in Whitby.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok it all makes sense now.

[sublime]

awesome work.

i have nothing against police officers, but i enjoy it when someone reminds them who they actually work for.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I've gotten out of several well-deserved tickets just by being a nice guy (someones gonna FYP this one, I'm sure) and bantering pleasantly with the cop. They are so used to nits like you that they cut me some slack for being a nice guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Being nice to get out of a traffic ticket is +EV. Letting a cop violate your rights while you're out walking late at night is -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

What rights are being violated? It's unusual for two guys to be about at that time, and, since the OP is not walking around with a scanner, he has no idea what may have transpired that night, such that a police officer would have reason to stop and ask him a few questions. He did nothing wrong, so why make a big stink about it? He wasn't being harassed, just answer the questions and be on your way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell you what...at random intervals the police will show up at your door and search your home. Maybe a lot of the homes in your neighbourhood are being used to grow marijuana, so the police are suspicious that you might be doing the same. Since you haven't done anything wrong, you'll have nothing to worry about. If you complain about it, you'll be called a dick and intimidated and they'll go ahead and search your home anyway.

On top of that, you'll be stopped by the police every so often as you drive home from work and forced to answer a series of questions as to where you're going, where you've been, etc... and you better answer the questions, or you will be detained until the police can ascertain that you're not up to no good. Since you have nothing to hide, you should be okay with the police doing this.

You're now going to point out that the OP was out after midnight, so he somehow deserved to be harassed and detained -- and yes, he was detained, because when he asked if he could leave the police told him he couldn't. The police also did their best to intimidate them into giving up their rights.

Personally, I don't see any difference between having your rights violated at 4am and your rights being violated at 4pm. That's just my opinion...I prefer to live in a free society. It's not for everyone, though.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You don't know me.

I don't think the police were wrong to stop us. I think they were wrong to hold us under duress after we had given them our information just to insult us and be confrontational.

FYI, most police officers would agree.

[/ QUOTE ]


If you would have simply said you were going for a walk and given your info instead of creating suspicion with your "no comment" stance the entire situation would have been avoided.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, what would be even better is if we were forced to call the police first and get permission to leave our homes. It would save a lot of time, plus we'd all know that anyone who was outside without permission would be up to no good. Yup, I think you're on to something. The police *should* be allowed to decide who is and isn't allowed outside.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't know me.

I don't think the police were wrong to stop us. I think they were wrong to hold us under duress after we had given them our information just to insult us and be confrontational.

FYI, most police officers would agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're wrong. Without any suspicion that you had committed a crime, they were totally wrong to stop you in the first place. You should be allowed to walk outside without being stopped and interrogated.

[-Skeme-]

[ QUOTE ]
He wasn't being harassed, just answer the questions and be on your way.

[/ QUOTE ]

The cop stopped them for no reason, repeatedly called them dicks, and told them they couldn't leave.. how is that not harassment?


[ QUOTE ]
Without any suspicion that you had committed a crime, they were totally wrong to stop you in the first place. You should be allowed to walk outside without being stopped and interrogated.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sums it all up.

[bernie]

So you spent 20+ minutes your way, when you'd likely have only spent 5 minutes and have been on your way. But I'm sure he'll be at home in a fetal position under his bed thinking about his run-in with 'Joe-I know my rights'.

Is this really a worthy battle to fight? No. It's equivalent of spending $500 to fight a $5 parking ticket.

I've been stopped plenty of times for crap. Big deal. You think you really made a difference with this cop? Doubt it. Report him? Yeah, that's good. Another waste of time and energy as nothing will likely come of it. If you do, let's up that cost to $600 dollars fighting that parking ticket.

When you really get some major crap under your belt that happens in your life, you'll see just how really menial and petty this whole confrontation was.

b

[Slow Play Ray]

[ QUOTE ]
So you spent 20+ minutes your way, when you'd likely have only spent 5 minutes and have been on your way....
Is this really a worthy battle to fight? No. It's equivalent of spending $500 to fight a $5 parking ticket

[/ QUOTE ]

It's princiPALITY, Smokey!

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So you spent 20+ minutes your way, when you'd likely have only spent 5 minutes and have been on your way....
Is this really a worthy battle to fight? No. It's equivalent of spending $500 to fight a $5 parking ticket

[/ QUOTE ]

It's princiPALITY, Smokey!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a waste of time.

b

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So you spent 20+ minutes your way, when you'd likely have only spent 5 minutes and have been on your way....
Is this really a worthy battle to fight? No. It's equivalent of spending $500 to fight a $5 parking ticket

[/ QUOTE ]

It's princiPALITY, Smokey!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a waste of time.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
It took a while, but not much longer than a standard interview (at least, not much longer than an interview in which they take and process your ID).

[/ QUOTE ]

Geesh.


Cops pulling random people over deserve any flak they get and then some. They should be doing their job and not hoping to get lucky while abusing law abiding citizens.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]


Geesh.


Cops pulling random people over deserve any flak they get and then some. They should be doing their job and not hoping to get lucky while abusing law abiding citizens.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo. It's amazing how quickly people on here are willing to give up their rights. And then they condemn those of us who actually value our rights and stand up for ourselves rather than acting like sheep.

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you are a dick.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ummm, before you go ahead and join the police, you might want to consider that it is a citizens freedom in this country not to have to divulge personal information without charge. We are required by law to provide our name and address. We are not required to tell a police officer on a random stop why we are up at this hour, what we're doing, where we are going, where we are coming from, what our jobs are, etc.

I happen to think it's worth standing up for those rights once in a while. In the past when we have been fully cooperative and answered all these questions, the officers didn't believe us. "Just walking at 3am eh?" and they keep hammering, and called in our names regardless.

Understand it isn't like we are being asked with a pretty please and a cherry on top. It is an interrogation, without the least bit of courtesy or appreciation.

We also were being perfectly polite. Which is to say more than the officer was doing from the start.

I suspect this sort of crap happens to us because police aren't used to coming across young guys out walking at 3am who aren't causing trouble. But honestly, we don't need to be assumed guilty and harrased every time we're out, and if we choose not to give our autobiography, I don't think we need to be called dicks either.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the US, I am well within my rights as a citizen to walk down the streets and call people by any vile epithet I want. Just because I am well within my rights does not mean I am not acting like a dick. The police acted reasonably in stopping you. You two decided to respond with "no comment." The officer then got upset and hurt your feelings by calling you a dick. You then posted the story here to show how you stood up to "the man." I'm not impressed with your story or your actions. Since you two acted like dicks people here on OOT are right to call you dicks. If you want sympathy, tell this story to your mom. She might care.

[/ QUOTE ]



Gotta luv this.. I totally agree! Let my start by first saying that hmmm..

The officer called you a dick... wow.. I guess he is just a straight shooter. You were/are? a dick.

Youy stated yourself that you understand WHY he pulled you over, but then state that he had no right to do so and you were going to be uncooperative??

Let's look at the facts here.. It was 4am in the morning, and unless there is 100+ people walking around in this area all the time at this hour, you just walking IS suspicious and should be more than enough to have you stopped.

It's not illegal for me to have my clothes covered in blood and to walk through the busiest areas of town at 9am, but I have to understand that eventually I will be stopped.

Now, I'll be the first to say that I know nothing about Canadian law, but what you did sounds stupid, and I wish he would of hauled you asses off to the precinct.

So many people around here have said that the police should be "doing their job" and they have "better things to do". Wake up.. this IS part of their job. As mentioned by another poster, I hope when you get your house robbed or car stolen that the cops just drive by the 2 guys "just walking" down the road.

If you would have been cooperative with this guy, he would have gotten you out of there much quicker for sure, but think of this... The next time him or his buddies see you walking down the street at 4am, I think you have a drastically increased chance that they will stop you again.

I just laugh at people like you who think the need to fight the "man", but get all pissed when something happens and you need the police, but they are not "serving" your needs to the level you feel they should. Sometimes I wish I could just ship some of you off to countries where you can be arrested and detained just because you have 2 feet!

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So you spent 20+ minutes your way, when you'd likely have only spent 5 minutes and have been on your way....
Is this really a worthy battle to fight? No. It's equivalent of spending $500 to fight a $5 parking ticket

[/ QUOTE ]

It's princiPALITY, Smokey!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a waste of time.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
It took a while, but not much longer than a standard interview (at least, not much longer than an interview in which they take and process your ID).

[/ QUOTE ]

Geesh.


Cops pulling random people over deserve any flak they get and then some. They should be doing their job and not hoping to get lucky while abusing law abiding citizens.

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, my time is worth more than wasting more time with a cop than I have to in this type of situation.

Again, I'll just pay the parking ticket and move on.

b