1st hand of 10+1 SnG

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1500)
SB (t1500)
Hero (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1500)
MP3 (t1500)
CO (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls t20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls t20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls t20, CO calls t20, Button calls t20, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t140</font>

Hero? I think it's to much to call and hit a set. I dont think he has a higher PP. It's a little earlier to risk 300+ with just a reraise so I decided to...

[illunious]

The first hand of a 10+1 I say to myself "everyone sucks really bad". So I re-raise all in here with AK, QQ, JJ. The times I get called by some crazy overplayed hand outweigh the times I run into a monster.

I really don't think doubling up the first hand is such a big advantage that it is worth going all in when you can fold and keep 99% of your chips, but I was extremely confident I had the best hand so I...

[illunious]

Going all in as a huge favorite is always an advantage. The range of hands I put a raiser on in the first hand of a 10+1 is nearly random.

I might be a huge favorite vs the raiser if he has a low pp, but he could have two face cards like KQ, then I'm only a favorite, and what about the other 5 limpers? Is the risk being taken so little compared to the reward possible on a hand you could continue playing on without and afterwards act as if it didn't even exist so great that I should push this hand everytime?

Don't worry too much about what your odds are against specific hands except in the context of a range of hands for villain. If you're usually a huge favorite, sometimes a slight favorite, and once in a blue moon a big dog, consider yourself to be a decent favorite, and be comfortable that you played it right even if he happens to be in the upper range of his hands (unless you later get evidence that the average 10+1 player is rarely playing crap here).

[Pudge714]

You played the hand incredibly weak tight, you even admitted you folded the best hand probably, how can you possibly play a hand correctly if you folded the best hand. I don't mind the repush, or even just calling if you flop and overpair you are probably good, and if you flop a set you are even more likelto be good, and you have position on the preflop raiser, although depending on how many people call you may be out of posiition in the pot.

[hockeyf]

I dont like a push here.

Call and hope to flop a set.
And come on its a 10+1, JJ is a powerholding.

[Burno]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont like a push here.

Call and hope to flop a set.
And come on its a 10+1, JJ is a powerholding.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm with ya. I'm fine with pushing over the same raise from the CO or button, but I give the SB a little more credit here. If he pushed, (which you see a lot) I'd instacall.

My default here in a Stars 10 is to just call. You have position, and the stacks on stars are deep enough to manuever postflop.

Do you guys actually think doubling up the first hand is worth risking 11 dollars? What if its 33 dollars or 55 dollars with a similar situation?

[WarmonkEd]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you guys actually think doubling up the first hand is worth risking 11 dollars? What if its 33 dollars or 55 dollars with a similar situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

How much the entry was shouldn't affect your decision. You're not risking any money, that money is already gone!

I think I prefer a push here.

You still have quite a bit of fold equity, and in a $11 I'm expecting people to be raising with junk early. The times you get called and double up/everyone folds outweighs the times you get called and you're behind.

But then again, I'm a huge fish.

The problem with pushing the first hand is it makes you look like someone who doesn't care about playing the SnG. You will get called by garbage frequently because people think your messing around.

I think if Hero calls here, so will several other limpers meaning any Q high flop or up is good-bye jacks. Against one opponent I would be more comfortable calling and seeing a flop.

I push here and expect to be ahead or take down the significant pot before the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with pushing the first hand is it makes you look like someone who doesn't care about playing the SnG. You will get called by garbage frequently because people think your messing around.

[/ QUOTE ]

I say that's a good thing. If you double up you're practically guaranteed a money spot. If you go on a run of good cards, expect to bust several "non-believers."

If you go all in and lose, just fire up another one.

[Manque]

I think half the players won't be paying attention and will wonder what happened to the guy who just busted out, and the other half will think "wow. Jacks! Whenever I play them I always get sucked out on. Poker is so rigged"

If you decide to keep this because its 10+1, then I wouldnt raise it again. I would see a flop. Obviously if a jack falls you're laughing, but as long as he hasn't got AA/KK/QQ you will be okay with a flop of ten or lower. Anything higher and let him take it.

At 11s would he really be so keen to potentially scare peoples out of the pot with a 7BB raise with AA/KK anyway?

[TWINUNO]

i think this is an easy call with your stack sizes to start out, a push i think is just silly unless you think he will fold most of the time, or this is a move he does with limpers in the pot. Big starting stacks allows you to play a lil more poker. I thought the conception around here was to pass on small advtages early and out play them when the blinds get big(ICM). Assuming your one of the better players, pushing isnt horrible, but i feel like its not an automatic play.

[bawcerelli]

i'll throw in my donk 2 cents. At the ten's with no reads, i think i would min raise this from BB. You're probably ahead here, but if you just flat call, you're inviting KQo and A5s to call as well. At least if you min raise, every limper will fold, fearing a reraise from the sb. i call a push from sb. if he just calls my min raise, i make a play at the pot on the flop if an A or K comes, pushing any other board. with no reads, i think this is an appropriate strategy for the 10's

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's to much to call and hit a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's not.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I prefer a push here.

You still have quite a bit of fold equity, and in a $11 I'm expecting people to be raising with junk early. The times you get called and double up/everyone folds outweighs the times you get called and you're behind.

But then again, I'm a huge fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offence, but it shows.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if Hero calls here, so will several other limpers meaning any Q high flop or up is good-bye jacks. Against one opponent I would be more comfortable calling and seeing a flop.

I push here and expect to be ahead or take down the significant pot before the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if it comes A 5 J, for instance?

[se2schul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you guys actually think doubling up the first hand is worth risking 11 dollars? What if its 33 dollars or 55 dollars with a similar situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

How much the entry was shouldn't affect your decision. You're not risking any money, that money is already gone!

[/ QUOTE ]

Good reply.

Unless you're playing over your BR, you really only use the buy-in to determine the type of players you're up against. The average $11 player plays differently than the average $55 player.

Use this information to put players on a specific range of hands and that will determine you're play. If you're worried about losing $11 or $22 or $33 or whatever, then you're likely playing over your BR or you may not have the correct attitude to become a winning player. The buyin is already gone.

[se2schul]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I prefer a push here.

You still have quite a bit of fold equity, and in a $11 I'm expecting people to be raising with junk early. The times you get called and double up/everyone folds outweighs the times you get called and you're behind.

But then again, I'm a huge fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this how you'd play other MONSTER hands like KQ?
I call the raise since it's less than 10% of my stack and play poker after I evaluate the flop.

[Nicholasp27]

u have 1500 chips, so u can call 140 as it's &lt;10% of ur stack

the general rule is call if 5% or less, fold if 10% or more and 6-9% is your discretion...jj is certainly good enough for calling

[durron597]

Oh. My. God.

Pushing here is horrible. Horrible. It is flat out wrong, there is no question. You are risking 1500 chips to win 200, and most of the time you are called you are dominated except maybe when the SB has AK.

If you want to reraise, you can make it like 400! And you will still have position on the SB. Christ guys, look how deep the stacks are, this isn't Party.

However, on the first hand I'm not looking to play a big pot with JJ. Just call and hope to flop a set or an overpair. You will flop an overpair more than half the time.

[45suited]

This is a 1500 chip game. You can easily call this. If a bunch of limpers call, you can triple up if you hit a set. If the pot is heads up, you can play any flop of unders strongly and you'll have position.

Those saying push this are way, way off IMO. And based upon my play on the 11s, you really don't have much FE if you push from the BB. SB will call you.

I am always amazed how everyone likes to say that your oppostion on the 11s suck at poker. This is generally true. But then they use this same logic to justify making stupid plays themselves (like pushing here with JJ).

Here's a sobering thought: even bad players sometimes get dealt hands that can beat JJ. It's entirely possible that SB has one of those hands. At the very least, he's probably got a couple of overcards. So... if we're all so much better than these fish, why exactly do we want to push with little FE instead of calling and seeing a flop with position against the raiser who we're supposedly better than and can outplay post flop???

[GtrHtr]

[ QUOTE ]
Those saying push this are way, way off IMO. And based upon my play on the 11s, you really don't have much FE if you push from the BB. SB will call you.

[/ QUOTE ]