Turning Stone 1/2 NL dilemma

[lil_o]

I was at Turning Stone last night when this hand unfolded. Villian (~275) has been playing virtually every hand calling raises with draws, bottom pair, 2nd pair, etc. Villian isn't just a calling station, and has been raising a lot too with everything from top pair to nothing. The villians VPIP would probably be around 85%. Villian recently doubled up when he hit a runner-runner flush against someone who flopped a straight. The best way to classify villian is a total maniac.

Ok, now to the hand. I (~250) was on the button with AKs. EP raiser makes it 10, MP calls, villian calls, I reraise to 40. EP and MP fold, villians calls, heads up. Pot is ~103. Flop comes down A-8-6 rainbow (suits don't matter). Villian leads for 10, I raise to 50, villian reraises to 100.

Hero???

[PaultheS]

Clearly you're going to the felt with this hand against this opponent. Villain has 60% of his stack in there now, so you'll probably get it all in there no matter how you play it. I'd just call this and then push it in when he bets the turn.

[DaveduFresne]

Easy reraise all in in that game, particularly with what you've told us about villain. I often wonder how players on here adjust between internet and live play. On the internet, (except for extremely low no limit stakes) top pair even with top kicker usually isn't worth very much to a reraise. But in a live 100 NL buy in game, its a monster. I'm not saying I would stack off if I had built my stack up to 400 in that game with it, but for 100 bucks or even two hundred against a reckless villain, I'm going to need a strong read to lay it down.

Btw, I was also there last night. I was wearing a grey polo shirt and leather jacket and had a Binghamton hat on. Don't remember the hand you're describing, so I'm guessing we weren't at the same table.....

[lil_o]

The hand happened at approximately 11pm. Apparently they had 9 NL100 tables open that night so there is a good chance I didn't see you.

I totally agree about going to the felt. My game was playing fast and loose. There was probably a string of 7-8 pots in a row that went to showdown and the pots were all $100+.

FYI villian was a middle aged asian man wearing at ugly lime green collar shirt.

[lil_o]

I did end up calling the flop. The turn brought another 8 so the board read A-6-8-8. Villian put me all-in (results to follow tommorow).

With your description of the villain im all in on the flop.

[elus2]

pushing all in on the flop allows villain to get away from a lot of hands. i call the flop and let villain dig his own grave on the turn.

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pushing all in on the flop allows villain to get away from a lot of hands. i call the flop and let villain dig his own grave on the turn.

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After calling the 3 bet the op only has $110 left. I doubt villains folding for that much more.

[lil_o]

I get it all-in on the turn. The river bricks off and vllian tables 6-6 for the boat.

In retrospect I don't think folding was an option so I only cursed myself briefly and rebought.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
pushing all in on the flop allows villain to get away from a lot of hands. i call the flop and let villain dig his own grave on the turn.

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that's too passive. i put villain on A9o

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
I was at Turning Stone last night when this hand unfolded. Villian (~275) has been playing virtually every hand calling raises with draws, bottom pair, 2nd pair, etc. Villian isn't just a calling station, and has been raising a lot too with everything from top pair to nothing. The villians VPIP would probably be around 85%. Villian recently doubled up when he hit a runner-runner flush against someone who flopped a straight. The best way to classify villian is a total maniac.


[/ QUOTE ]

If this description is perfectly accurate, then you obviously need to get all of the money in here. TPTK facing a reraise is a marginal situation at best... unless you're facing someone who has been raising with nothing all day. Shove it in. If he has a set, rebuy.

I think two important things should be learned from this hand, though:

1) Sometimes we craft descriptions of opponents to make our own decisions seem more reasonable. (I know that I have been guilty of this in the past.)

I'm not accusing you of doing this with respect to the particular hand you posted, but consider the following: reread the description you posted of this maniac. How is anyone going to read that, then read the hand as it played out, and then tell you to do anything besides back this hand with your stack? Obviously if the guy is shoving in huge chunks of his stack with backdoor flush draws, second pair, or 'nothing'... then you have to get the money in here.... but what if your description is inaccurate? Then we might be able to find a fold.

2) It is worth it for everyone to consider how hard this maniac made it for you to play properly against him.

You have no idea what he has -- you said it yourself; he could have middle pair, a straight draw, nothing, top pair, or a set.

This fact forces you to shove in your stack with TPTK, because that is a strong holding against his hand range. His wide hand range won him a huge pot here; there's something to be said for this.

[lil_o]

I knew I was going to the felt this hand no matter what happened. I was more concerned whether or not I should call on the flop or just push it in. Personally I felt pushing the flop was bad news considering it gives the villian a chance to fold.

With the amount of money you had left after calling his 3-bet and the villian's maniacal description, I don't think there is anything wrong with putting the rest in on the flop.

[dtbog]

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With the amount of money you had left after calling his 3-bet and the villian's maniacal description, I don't think there is anything wrong with putting the rest in on the flop.

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Agreed.

If he's such a maniac, he's not folding ATo here with half of his stack in the middle.

[DaveduFresne]

Yeah it was busy there, the action was great too. I wish I lived closer, I bet I could make a decent living fishing those tables.

I assume the Asian guy wasn't Ben (real skinny asian guy with glasses), that's the only one I know there, I'm pretty sure he either plays for a living or uses the games as a significant source of extra income. He's tighter than [censored] though, but somehow always seems to have a stack around 300 or 400 when I get there.

So you going to tell us results or what? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[DaveduFresne]

You don't really need to get tricky at these tables. And although a lot of the young kids there overbet their weaker hands, it is not unusual for people to overbet all in with the nuts on the flop. I see it all the time there with hands like the nut straight, flush etc. Its funny how they proudly show the table their hand after their overbet if it didn't get called.

[DaveduFresne]

Sorry didn't notice results at first. I would say it probably doesn't matter whether you push on the flop or later. Against a somewhat tighter player there might be more wisdom in waiting till the turn to maximize your value.

As another poster addressed, be sure that you're not assuming just because an opponent has done a lot of betting that he is bsing all the time. Also, in my game, (which I believe is a solid one) I will frequently take one shot to steal a pot which is the same bet size as it would be if I actually had something. However, I rarely reraise on a bluff, and that's where a lot of opponents make mistakes against me. They convince themselves that since I sometimes bluff they can call me down to the river and hope second pair will be good.

But going back to your hand, I think most likely it was just unlucky for you that he had a set.

David

[lil_o]

He was a stocky individual without glasses. Apparently hes a good bacarat player.