Apostle's Creed

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
And this is slightly off topic, but for your own reference, this is the Apostles' Creed (a lot of Christians claim that if you believe in the Apostles' Creed then you are Christian and if you don't, you're not):
-
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
-
I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
-
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.


[/ QUOTE ]

I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this, but this feels really ugly to me -- especially if it's part of a public recitation in a crowd or something like that.

Without saying what my personal beliefs are as to the existence of god or whatnot (because I haven't got a bloody clue, but I hope it exists and it's Good).

So, I really hate this saying, particularly in public, for a few reasons:

-If It's out there, and you believe, It probably knows

-Your fellow Christians shouldn't need you to say this to associate with you

-Your inner self (soul, personality, whatever) is your own, and you shouldn't be prodded to express it in public if you don't want to

-This could encourage people to say things that they don't particularly know is true, when they're still trying to discover God. It's a guilty feeling to lie in public about such a weighty matter.

... I don't know, it feels like a cavity search. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm sure there's arguments to the contrary, and if you'd like to express them, please do.

[sexdrugsmoney]

1) Catholic.

2) Don't know where public comes into it. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[xniNja]

Fairly clear and simple point imo.

Then again, if those Italians could wack each other to opera, maybe they do need some sort of group chant mantra.

[sexdrugsmoney]

That is not Apollo Creed.

[sexdrugsmoney]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That is not Apollo Creed.

[/ QUOTE ]

But thats why its so funny!

[/ QUOTE ]

I see why, and perhaps I should be laughing, but I'm not.

Am I losing my sense of humour?

Am I becoming a robot?

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.nanciemarsalis.com/images/Apollo.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[AdamL]

I'm mostly familiar with the Nicene Creed, which is (I think) the father of the "Apostles Creed".

You have to understand the historical context and what what this is all about. At the time there was a lot of shuffling around in the Church about what Christ was and what he wasn't.

The Council of Nicaea (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11044a.htm) was held to create a firm, "official" line so that no confusion could be created by various heresies going on.

It is not meant as a tribute to God, although it can be a kind of self-reaffirmation if you want to use it that way. It isn't to inform God of anything, it is to inform the world. It's also not a secret handshake so that Christians may associate with one another or anything like that.

Adam

[m1illion]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And this is slightly off topic, but for your own reference, this is the Apostles' Creed (a lot of Christians claim that if you believe in the Apostles' Creed then you are Christian and if you don't, you're not):
-
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
-
I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
-
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.


[/ QUOTE ]


It has been a very long time since I have seen this.The first nine years of my schooling was in Catholic schools and I once knew this by heart.
What stands out now is this
" descended into hell"
Is there any biblical reference to this? I don't remember one.

[BluffTHIS!]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Paragraph 1. CHRIST DESCENDED INTO HELL

632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was "raised from the dead" presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.477 This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ's descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Saviour, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.478

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.479 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom":480 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Saviour in Abraham's bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."481 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.482

634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."483 The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus' messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ's redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."484 Jesus, "the Author of life", by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."485 Henceforth the risen Christ holds "the keys of Death and Hades", so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."486

Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. the earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . "I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead."487

IN BRIEF

636 By the expression "He descended into hell", the Apostles' Creed confesses that Jesus did really die and through his death for us conquered death and the devil "who has the power of death" (⇒ Heb 2:14).

637 In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven's gates for the just who had gone before him.



477 ⇒ Acts 3:15; ⇒ Rom 8:11; ⇒ I Cor 15:20; cf. ⇒ Heb 13:20.
478 Cf. ⇒ I Pt 3:18-19.
479 Cf. ⇒ Phil 2:10; ⇒ Acts 2:24; ⇒ Rev 1:18; ⇒ Eph 4:9; ⇒ Pss 6:6; ⇒ 88:11-13.
480 Cf. ⇒ Ps 89:49; ⇒ I Sam 28:19; ⇒ Ezek 32:17-32; ⇒ Lk 16:22-26.
481 Roman Catechism 1, 6, 3.
482 Cf. Council of Rome (745): DS 587; Benedict XII, Cum dudum (1341): DS 1011; Clement VI, Super quibusdam (1351): DS 1077; Council of Toledo IV
(625): DS 485; ⇒ Mt 27:52-53.
483 ⇒ I Pt 4:6.
484 ⇒ Jn 5:25; cf. ⇒ Mt 12:40; ⇒ Rom 10:7; ⇒ Eph 4:9.
485 ⇒ Heb 2:14-15; cf. ⇒ Acts 3:15.
486 ⇒ Rev 1:18; ⇒ Phil 2:10.

[m1illion]

[ QUOTE ]
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Paragraph 1. CHRIST DESCENDED INTO HELL

632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was "raised from the dead" presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.477 This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ's descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Saviour, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.478

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.479 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom":480 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Saviour in Abraham's bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."481 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.482

634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."483 The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus' messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ's redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."484 Jesus, "the Author of life", by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."485 Henceforth the risen Christ holds "the keys of Death and Hades", so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."486

Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. the earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . "I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead."487

IN BRIEF

636 By the expression "He descended into hell", the Apostles' Creed confesses that Jesus did really die and through his death for us conquered death and the devil "who has the power of death" (⇒ Heb 2:14).

637 In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven's gates for the just who had gone before him.



477 ⇒ Acts 3:15; ⇒ Rom 8:11; ⇒ I Cor 15:20; cf. ⇒ Heb 13:20.
478 Cf. ⇒ I Pt 3:18-19.
479 Cf. ⇒ Phil 2:10; ⇒ Acts 2:24; ⇒ Rev 1:18; ⇒ Eph 4:9; ⇒ Pss 6:6; ⇒ 88:11-13.
480 Cf. ⇒ Ps 89:49; ⇒ I Sam 28:19; ⇒ Ezek 32:17-32; ⇒ Lk 16:22-26.
481 Roman Catechism 1, 6, 3.
482 Cf. Council of Rome (745): DS 587; Benedict XII, Cum dudum (1341): DS 1011; Clement VI, Super quibusdam (1351): DS 1077; Council of Toledo IV
(625): DS 485; ⇒ Mt 27:52-53.
483 ⇒ I Pt 4:6.
484 ⇒ Jn 5:25; cf. ⇒ Mt 12:40; ⇒ Rom 10:7; ⇒ Eph 4:9.
485 ⇒ Heb 2:14-15; cf. ⇒ Acts 3:15.
486 ⇒ Rev 1:18; ⇒ Phil 2:10.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow. I was raised Catholic and was a practicing Catholic well into my late teens and I've never heard any of this crap.
I do note that this is from Catechism, which is what is taught to those converting to Catholicism.
Add this to the "Why leaving the Church was one of the best decisions you ever made" list.

[BluffTHIS!]

Along with you never really believed in the first place.

[m1illion]

l