Need some advice (NC)

[gonzopro]

First some background: I started off playing the nano/micros at Pacific poker in April with $100 deposit. I withdrew my depostit and played one handed with the bonus money, working on my game, and moving up levels as my bankroll allowed. I spent time reading SSHE and lurking at 2+2. I finally cleared the bonus in June and by that time I was playing .50/1. I then cleared a the Granny bonus and some casino bonuses and started on the Party bonuses.

In July I started playing 1/2 on party skins. I have 17k hands and I am winning at 2.96BB/100. My VPIP=19.17, PFR= 7.05 (too low), Att to steal= 24.32(too low), showdown = 34.74 (too low), W$SD= 51% (too low), AF = 2.07, Fold to river bet=42.54 (too high?).

I think I play pretty solid ABC poker and I have picked up some more advanced concepts via this forum such as raising first in late position and raising to isolate a weak player. However, clearly my PFR and some other stats are off and I am not confident I can continue beating the game at this pace. I have no significant experience shorthanded and am clearly weak in this area.

I would like to move up to make bonus whoring a little more profitable and to continue to challenge myself. So here's my question, should I play 6 max before moving up to 2/4? I have played a little (~1k hands) @ .5/1 6max and was successful but I hated the swings. I have played a few hundred hands at 2/4 full and did ok but was scarred to death capping the turn. So gurus of the micros, where should I go from here? 6max .5/1, 6max 1/2, or 2/4 full

If anyone who plays 6max at night (say sometime 8-12PM ET) would be willing to let me sweat you, please PM me.

[kapw7]

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So here's my question, should I play 6 max before moving up to 2/4?

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100% yes

[Redd]

Definitely do some 6max. If you're worried about adjusting to the swings, the 0.50/1 6m tables will be about as swingy as 1/2 full dollarwise. Start with them first to get the basics down, then jump to 1/2; the table are very soft, and judging by your winrate/no. of hands played at 1/2 you should have sufficient bankroll to not be too devastated by swings.

[bozlax]

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I would like to move up to make bonus whoring a little more profitable...

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/images/graemlins/confused.gif

The higher the level you're playing, the LESS profitable bonus whoring is, on a number of levels: one, it's going to be less basically profitable (profit exclusive of bonuses) because auto-pilot poker (which you'll be playing when you multi-table, trying to clear the bonus) won't cut it as well at 2/4, 3/6, etc; two, as it's more difficult to multi-table higher levels it will take you more hours to clear the bonus, so your $/HR rate will be lower; and, three, at the higher levels your BB/100 and BB/HR rates will obviously be lower, since 100/4 is smaller than 100/1.

Not to hiijack the thread, but do upper-small-stakes players (5/10 and the like) even bother with bonuses? When 1 pot can easily equal 2 monthly Party reloads, what's the point?

[kapw7]

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Not to hiijack the thread, but do upper-small-stakes players (5/10 and the like) even bother with bonuses? When 1 pot can easily equal 2 monthly Party reloads, what's the point?

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I haave been wondering the same. Maybe its OK for Party
700 raked hands - or approx. 1000 hands
4-tabling 1/2 6-max means 3hrs
A reasonable winrate 2.5 BB/100 means $50 plus $100 from the bonus. This gives $150 or $50 per hr. So its better than 3/6 and maybe 5/10. Any other opinions?

[Saint_D]

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showdown = 34.74 (too low), W$SD= 51% (too low)

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Read the forum FAQ again. You're showdown (which I take to be 'went to showdown') is a touch too high. Your W$SD is fine. You are probably running slightly well and these numbers are normal.

Don't worry about your numbers. If you aren't confident, logging another 50K hands at 1/2 full will help. Mixing in some 6-max will probably also be good for you.

-D

[gonzopro]

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Definitely do some 6max.

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I was afraid everyone would say that. I realize it is a skill I will need to be successful as I move up - it just didn't seem to agree with me although the game did seem easily beatable. I think I'll plan on playing at least 5k more hands at .5/1 6 max and then move up to 1/2 6 max.

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The higher the level you're playing, the LESS profitable bonus whoring is...

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What I meant is that some bonuses are really only doable when you play 2/4 (those which the rake must=$1). Obviously as you move up bonuses make up less and less of your bankroll growth.

[gonzopro]

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Read the forum FAQ again. You're showdown (which I take to be 'went to showdown') is a touch too high. Your W$SD is fine. You are probably running slightly well and these numbers are normal.

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Thank you for pointing this out. For some reason I think I am folding too much (feels like I never catch someone bluffing). WSF = 34.74 so taking these together I am probably just running well - another reason not to jump straight to 2/4 full and await the inevitable decline.

[detruncate]

You can go directly to 2/4 full if you want to. You'll have plenty of opportunity to learn the things you need to learn. But might as well take your time and work on your game at a limit you're more comfortable with since a lot of the issues seem to involve finding more opportunities to be aggressive -- it's easier to get used to pushing smaller edges when you're not freaked out about the limit you're playing.

Some things to think about:

Playing short quickly exposes you to many of the sorts of situations that seem likely to help your game.

The increased swings of 1/2-6 will probably help you prepare for the swings at 2/4 (both in terms of dollars and BBs -- you'll get used to seeing your roll fluctuate more severly, and translating it to BBs might acually give you some confidence once you move to 2/4 if the swings flatten out a bit).

You clear bounes more quickly at 1/2-6 than .5/1, and much more quickly than at 2/4 (if you still have some to work on).

1/2-6 is a very juicy game. I'd play there rather than lower if your roll and your confidence can handle it. I shudder to think how big a bite the rake takes at .5/1-6, and I doubt 1/2-6 is that much harder.

Best of luck and happy pokering.

[baronzeus]

easily i'd choose 1/2 6max and as soon as I have the roll I move to 3/6 6max. don't waste time [censored] around with micro limits if you have the roll and the confidence.

[gonzopro]

Well, I decided to do the Empire bonus so I am playing 1/2 6 max 2. I played 2 tables - I usually play 4-6 full. Today I played 233 hands and won at 15.6BB/100. Hit some really big hands. The game did not seem as bad(as in hard - there was no shortage of bad play) as I remembered it and I actually had some fun when the tables were good. There is a ton of good 6max info on this board for beginners. I'm just starting to sift through it (I will try to put up a summary post when I get done). Best advice so far: 6max is no different from 10 handed and the first 4 people fold (which happens all the time). You do not need to adjust your basic game. You do need develop some skills that aren't as essential in full ring (namely hand reading for me).

My goal:
1. Beat a 6 max game (?1/2) this month for 3BB/100 over at least 5k hands (hopefully 10k)

[kapw7]

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1. Beat a 6 max game (?1/2) this month for 3BB/100 over at least 5k hands (hopefully 10k)

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Don't set goals like that. 3BB/100 for 5K or 10K means nothing.

Move up when you have the BR and confidence.
I moved up from 1/2 6max having 2BB/100 and from 2/4 to 3/6 right after a 150BB downswing. I was confident on my game and had a decent BR.

And unfortunately: There is NO way to improve your game unless you move up.

[gonzopro]

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Don't set goals like that. 3BB/100 for 5K or 10K means nothing.

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While true, I don't see anything wrong with having something to shoot for.

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And unfortunately: There is NO way to improve your game unless you move up.

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100% disagree. Why read this board?