LONG Horrible Session Review: Hero vs Donk (but, I think I'm the donk) [Archive]

09-04-2005, 02:33 AM

This is LONG.

First of all, I was debating back and forth whether to even make this post. I wasn't sure of the type of response I'd get out of it. I'd love a constructive one, but I'm sure I'll get bashed for it by someone.

A few points/clarifications before you continue:

1. I realize that this session should be in the "micro-limit" forum. I dropped down for various reasons (mainly because I think I need more practice). However, I'm posting it here, because I have been reading/posting in here & playing 2/4 (until recently) and have really come to respect numerous "Carpal/Tunnel" posters (and others on their way to that status) in here, and I'd love to see their opinions.

2. I would appreciate constructive criticism on these hands. I can't learn a whole lot from replies of: "standard play", "I hate this [raise/fold/check/call] on the [street]" without any explanation.

3. I feel I have been playing with dumb aggression lately, so there are times in these hands where I probably show exactly that and others where I am possibly over-compensating for my leak.

4. I know about varience, but I don't think that's the case here. I think it's me. Any other 2+2er would have had a field day with him (and me).

Anyway, the Villian's stats are exactly that of someone everyone wants on his or her BuddyList. Except, I think he probably added me to his after this session.

Villian (for this session - 124 hands):
VP$IP: 56.45
PFR: 5.65
AF: .43
WTS: 46.05

Hero (for this session):
VP$IP: 17.32
PFR: 5.51
AF: 1.44
WTS: 32.20

There are 12 hands in the order which they were played. I realize that some (if not all) are probably boring, but I just picked out the ones where both Villian and I were involved and one of us won the hand. If they were "standard" hands to me, then I wouldn't be posting them.

Hand 1:
Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB:(Villian)/ completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Villian checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, Villian folds, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

Hand 2:
Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button:(Villian)/ calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, Villian calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, Villian 3-bets, Hero caps, MP2 folds, Villian calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, Villian calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, Villian raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Hand 3:
Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, MP1:(Villian)/ calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Villian checks, Hero bets, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, Villian calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Villian checks, Hero bets, BB folds, Villian calls.

River: (6 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Villian checks, Hero bets, Villian calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Hand 4:
Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB:(Villian)/ completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
Villian checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
Villian bets, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds.

River: (4.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Villian bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

Hand 5:
Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 :#A500AF(Villian)/ calls, Hero raises, 5 folds, BB calls, UTG+1:(Villian)/ calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Villian checks, Hero bets, BB calls, Villian calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Villian bets, Hero raises, BB folds, Villian calls.

River: (9.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Villian checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

Hand 6:
Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
Hero calls, 4 folds, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, BB:(Villian)/ checks.

Flop: (4 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Villian checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (2 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Villian bets, Hero folds, CO folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: 3 BB

Hand 7:
Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB:(Villian)/ completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
Villian checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, Button calls, Villian calls, Hero folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Villian checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.

River: (4.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Villian bets, MP2 folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

Hand 8:
Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
4 folds, MP2:(Villian)/ calls, Hero calls, CO calls, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Villian checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB folds, Villian folds.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO folds.

Final Pot: 4.25 BB

Hand 9:
Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB:(Villian)/ calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Villian checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
Villian bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, Button folds, Villian calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Villian checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

Hand 10:
Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3:(Villian)/ calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP3:(Villian)/ calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Villian calls, Hero raises, BB folds, MP1 calls, Villian calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
MP1 checks, Villian checks, Hero checks.

River: (7.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
MP1 checks, Villian bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

Hand 11:
Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button:(Villian)/ calls, Hero raises, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Button:(Villian)/ calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Villian calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Villian bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Hand 12:
Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB:(Villian)/ completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
Villian checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
Villian checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, Button calls, Villian folds.

River: (5.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

BTW, at the end of this his BB/100 was 47.26.
Mine was -6.24.

Thank you in advance to everyone who took the time to read this and respond to any part.

SackUp

09-04-2005, 02:58 AM

I would really not worry about one session against a donk. These dudes thrive on variance and looks like you just were its victim for a couple of the hands. I'll give you a quick and dirty on them

Hand 1: nh

Hand 2: I bet out on this flop. I would hate for this to check through and let people pick up draws. Bet and keep raising on the flop. Him getting trip 8s sucks, but you have to pay this off.

Hand 3: Raise preflop. Rest standard.

Hand 4: uh, standard - why is this here??

Hand 5: Why are you raising this turn??? You picked up the flush draw but are likely behind here and you don't have a hand to protect to drive out BB. Call. Bet that river if checked to.

Hand 6: fold preflop. rest standard

Hand 7: again what was the point of this hand?

Hand 8: standard

Hand 9: b/f the flop - don't be so afraid of the king. Turn raise is suspect

Hand 10: b/f turn - stop being weak

Hand 11: Bet the turn HU with this ragged board

Hand 12: why not value bet the river?

Ok most of these hands are standard or worthless. I don't know why I responded to all of these, but I started and did not feel like quitting.

You really need to just post hands that particularly confuse you and you are unsure where you went wrong. Posts like this are not of that much value as the hands did not offer much to learn from. Especially the hands from the BB.

09-04-2005, 03:38 AM

1-4: seems right.

5: I probably wouldn't raise turn. His AF is too low, I'd just peel turn cheaply and fold river UI.

6: Not sure about the utg limp even with the poster there.

8: I'd like to raise PF to iso villain here.

9: I really think a flop bet is necessary here, can't give a free card here. Pot is 4bb so make them pay to draw.

10: Depending on MP1 on the turn I might bet. Not many clean outs if you're behind here but if you can fold out MP1 you may be ahead of villain.

11: What can you do here? I wonder if the hand plays easier if you don't raise pf. Smaller pot to manage possibly with greater fold equity?

12: I think a 9, smaller pair, maybe an A will call a river bet here. And you won't be raised often either.

TheHip41

09-04-2005, 04:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, Q.
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB:(Villian)/ calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 2, 4, K (4 players)
Villian checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 7 (4 players)
Villian bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, Button folds, Villian calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 3 (2 players)
Villian checks, Hero checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain this hand to me, it seems really really bad.

Dagger78

09-04-2005, 05:27 PM

Hand 1: Well played, no complaints.

Hand 2: When the villian Calls, then reraises it normally screams set, or maybe 2 pair. I'd play it the same but fold the river, this a NOT a bluff. You've show too much strength for a passive player to bluff raise the river.

Hand 3 seems normal, but I just don't want to limp with ATo behind one limper and 4 people to act. You're just asking to have it raised behind you and end up OOP with a marginal hand. If you're gonna play,raise the weak player if you think you can isolate, otherwise fold.

Hand 4, no reason to get involved here. Fold.

Hand 5 I Like to flop raise to try and buy a free card on the turn. When he donks you on the turn it normally mean a pair and he's not going anywhere. Don't semi-bluff raise here, it won't work unlss he's a good player capable of laying down a pair here. Bet and fold to a raise on the river, he'll call you with the previously mentioned pair and Check-raise you with the straight. It's more likely he had the pair.

Hand 6 Don't play these trap hands up front. You'll end up out of postion and end up playing off a hand that dominates you. Fold and save yourself the hassle.

Hand 7, 6 handed and you have nothing. Check and fold.

Hand 8, You generally need 3 or more limpers and be in the CO or on the button to play this hand. Fold preflop. Once you've made it to the flop, bet it like you did and slow down(or maybe fold) if you're raised.

Hand 9, Bet the flop and back off the turn if you get several callers. Once you've checked the flop you MUST raise the turn. He's calling your raise here with a pair that probably isn't kings or he would have bet the flop with his agression. Value bet the river, he'll play off with any pair.

Hands 10 Bet the Turn and take a free showdown. The Ace may have beaten you but you should bet to prevent anyone with a single diamond from getting a free card. You can safely fold to a Check-raise here. Check behind on the river if you're called on the turn.

Hand 11 From his actions against you he's gonna bet ANY 2 cards here, I'd love to call him down UI here, but I think that's me being stubborn. Personally I hate this situation and I don't know what to tell you.

Hand 12 I would have also bet the turn and checked the river there.

I wish I could have been more helpful bud, but if you lost most of these, I would have too.