Flop capped with OESD

I just got abused for this tidbit. The person in question is LP and was playing pretty much any hand from any position.

On the flop i figured i would lead out so i could represent a queen instead of the OESD and hopefully get a few more callers but i did not count on it being capped.

Once he raised me i figured i may as well go ahead and reraise and hopefully get a free card (which worked). I was happy to abandon it on the river if he had of bet and i figured him for a weak queen at first.

I must say though, previous to about a month ago i would of checked the flop and folded to a bet.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP3 folds, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 caps</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

River: (6.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

Also any comments on this hand ? Should i have checked the turn even though i had now also picked up an gutshot as well as the flush draw ?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls.

River: (6 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: 6 BB

I don't think a bet here on the river would of caused him to fold his pair of jacks because my bet on the turn when the queen showed up failed to scare him so i just checked on the river.

[Eeegah]

hand 1:
There is no reason whatsoever to 3-bet the flop. Your draw is going to come in less than a third of the time, so you can't raise for value.

Hand 2:
Flop and turn are fine. The river seems pretty read-dependent to me; I could see bet/folding, check/calling and check/folding depending on how likely the villain is to bluff with another busted flush draw or other stuff.

Edit: Wow, misread hand 2, definitely raise PF and bet out the turn; we don't know where or even if there's going to be a bet on the flop, so checkraising could blow away the field instead of being for value.

[RandBriscoe]

Hand #1 - I call the flop raise and go from there. Check-call the turn. The river plays itself.

Hand #2 - I raise pre-flop. I don't understand the check-raise? I bet out. Call a raise from MP3 if he decides to spice things up. The turn is a bit hairy I think. You can bet and potentially take it down here, but I'm pretty sure he has a heart and isn't going anywhere. I check/fold the river if it's a brick. If he checks thru, I suspect there's a good chance this pot is mine...

Hand 1:
Flop - Check/Call..Raising here doesn't make much sense and is very -EV IMO.
Turn - Checking is fine here, since your intentionw with the flop aggro. was to get a free card.
River - I'd bet out here. You might get him to fold with a bet, and if he raises, consider folding. His flop aggression could have been from a nut flush draw which some low limit players play very aggressively. His check behind you on the turn makes me think he doesn't have the queen and is actually putting you on the queen here.

Hand 2:
Preflop - Raise raise raise. No exceptions.
Flop - Check/call. I don't like the raise here when you're OOP.
Turn - Check/call. Since you C/R'd the flop, you should check here to possibly pick up a free card...You still have no made hands worth betting.
River - Check/fold. You rarely win here with A-high.

- thing85 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[chiachu]

I dont understand all this aggression (but then again im weak-tight...)

Hand 1:
I dont think 3-betting the flop is good here. Its heads up and you're out of position. So, im not seeing a value raise nor a free card raise here.

Id follow up with a check/call on the turn and a donk bet on the river.


Hand 2:
Id raise preflop...
but assuming i only called preflop

id either bet/call or check/call this flop. Again, you're out of position, and i dont see what raising really accomplishes here (trying to get K3,K4,A3,A4 to fold? /images/graemlins/confused.gif). If your trying to semi-bluff him out of the pot and bet the turn, i think you need to bet the river again.

[tyler_cracker]

I dislike the suggestion of betting the river in Hand 1. Worse hands (busted flush draw) aren't calling, but better hands are (77-JJ). We might be able to snap off a bluff (especially if he has Ax/images/graemlins/heart.gif), but i'm happy to go to showdown cheaply.

And to OP: i'd say the top card on the board pairing on the turn had a lot more to do with the free card you got than your flop 3-bet did /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Finally, add the open-limping, open-folding UTG from Hand 2 to your buddy list.

[adsman]

Hand 1 don't 3 bet the flop as you don't have the equity. The way he played it I would put him on either a flush draw or he's one of these idiots who likes to limp preflop with AA or KK and then go crazy and the Turn card scared him.

If he's passive I don't bet the river as I don't think a passive player would cap the flop on a flush draw. If he's not overly passive then I think that the river is a clear value bet.

[chiachu]

[ QUOTE ]
I dislike the suggestion of betting the river in Hand 1. Worse hands (busted flush draw) aren't calling, but better hands are (77-JJ). We might be able to snap off a bluff (especially if he has Ax/images/graemlins/heart.gif), but i'm happy to go to showdown cheaply.

[/ QUOTE ]

My mistake on my last post. I misread the hand and thought the OP had rivered a straight. I like Check/call better here as well.

Hand 1 - Other guy had 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Hand 2 - Other guy had J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I'm a little uncomfortable raising in the sb/bb, i'll do it with AKs, but AKo. Obviously there are some problems with my play, i've gone from being tight passive to some what tight yet maniac on some of the hands i do play. Reviewing the AKo hand though i can see where i played that wrongly.

Thanks for the comments, i much appreciate them.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a little uncomfortable raising in the sb/bb, i'll do it with AKs, but AKo.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if you meant to say "but not AKo," but you should be raising with BOTH AKs and AKo. They're both premium starting hands and should be played as such.

- thing85 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[marchron]

Grunching . . .

Hand 1 flop reraise is teh suck. You have a good draw, yes, but you're heads-up and out of position.

Rest of hand OK.

Hand 2 preflop call is teh suck hard. Horrible, terrible, poopy. Seriously.

Rest of hand OK.

On hand 1.. as others have mentioned 3-betting it heads-up was a terrible play. No one else mentioned that you did not really get a "free card". When you 3-bet it, he capped it. That means you already paid the extra 2 SBs (1 BB) you would pay on the turn.

Hand 2... raise PF everytime. The flop check-raise was downright awful. You had a decent draw, yet you killed all the action and made it heads-up. Your only caller is the one with a better hand already. Nothing else you could have done.