Help, first no limit tournament

[Argyll]

Hello all,

I will be playing in a WSOP hold'em satellite this Tuesday and have never played no limit before. My usual venue is 3/6 to 6/12 hold'em. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance, I've also posted this on the Pot-No Limit board. /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

[Greg (FossilMan)]

You could try to use David's "System". While it is not a long-term winning strategy, it can bring you better results than playing it more "normally" when you don't really know what you're doing.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[RollaJ]

Greg I really value your opinions, and learn a lot from your posts, but....)do you really advocate using that system for anyone who knows anything about holdem? It was a novel idea, for a player who had no idea of how to play poker, but this is different. Especially in a satellite tourney, where people will call with many more hands than this system is trying to thwart(he claims people will lay down QQ). I have never seen a sattelite where at least someone would not hesitate calling an all in bet from a habitual "all-in-er" with 10-10 or better, as well as A-Ko & A-Qo/s.

[Argyll]

Hi Roll-a-J----,

Thanks, even though I haven't heard of 'David's System', from your reply it sounds like bluffing or simi-bluffing with all-in bets. If that's the case, you are correct. This is a small local card room (largest game is 20/40 and that only happens once in a while) I know many of the players will take almost any painted pocket pairs to a showdown. My concern was more from outside people with more no-limit experience joining the tournament. Someone in the No-limit forum gave me a one word answer (Pray) Taking that advice along with induldging in your moniker may be the answer. Don't stress and learn from the experience. /forums/images/icons/cool.gif

[TimTimSalabim]

Here's David's recent article where he refines "The System":

http://www.cardplayer.com/?sec=afeature&art_id=13194

[electric2]

PUSH ALL IN ON EVERY SINGLE HAND!!

[Argyll]

thanks, it was an interesting premise. It might be worth a shot (when in doubt) if I make it past this satellite. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[Greg (FossilMan)]

If you've never played NL before, and do not wish to use the present occasion as a learning experience, then the system is probably going to give you a higher EV than playing your own game. It isn't a winning system, but it's -EV will be less negative than most player's manage when trying to play NLH using their own best judgment.

If players are going to be calling more often than David's system accounts for, then you modify it by folding the smaller suited connectors, maybe all suited connectors, and only go all-in with pairs and AK. That way you'll be behind less often when you are called.

If he doesn't want to do that, then I have an alternative recommendation.

Whenever he wants to bet, bet the pot. When raising, raise the pot. If doing this will use up more than 40% of his stack, go all-in instead.

This still leaves a lot of hard decisions as to whether to bet or raise or fold, but it simplifies one aspect of the game, and does it in a way that nobody can differentiate between a value bet and a bluff.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Argyll]

Thanks Greg,

While I do plan on using this as a learning experience I'd still like to get as far as I can. I really do appreciate the advice and the discovery of David's system. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[RollaJ]

Whenever he wants to bet, bet the pot. When raising, raise the pot. If doing this will use up more than 40% of his stack, go all-in instead.

Now, that is some damn fine advice for a first time NL player!
IMHO, just add the rule dont chase flushes or straights for big bets /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[rkiray]

Go on-line and play some small stake no-limit to get a feel for it. Paradise has $25 and $50 NL buy-ins. NL definitely has a much different feel/strategy than limit. I'm a winner at limit but I have gotten crushed whenever I've tried NL (not often). I've only played NL in one live tournament, a few times at Paradise, and now I'm using my UltimatePoints to play in their 100 pt buy-in tourneys. I'm getting a little better. The first two were like all my other NL experience, and I quickly got crushed. But last night I was much more selective on my starting hands and when I raised first in preflop, I would generally start at about 4 times the blinds. THis seemed to work much better and this time I went out 17th out of 200. Way better than anything else up to now. It could have been a fluke, but I hope shows at least some progress. I've also been reading Ciafone's (probably spelled wrong) and Reuben's Pot Limit and No Limit Poker book and these forums to try to get a better feel for the game. Good luck.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

To add my 2 cents. Limit raises won't chase anybody out. First in preflop, either limp or raise 4X the big blind. Throw in too many limit raises and the experienced players will start bullying you.

Most people play way too loose in the early rounds. Don't fall into that trap. Be careful early, you'll see a lot of Ax, Kx shown down to win with 2 pair.

[Argyll]

Hello all,

Well today was the tournament and I want to thank everyone for all the good advice. If I had not of reverted back to limit poker I think I would have done even better.
My last Hand, please comment

Down to four people at the final table. I am third in chip count but we are all pretty close except for 4th place.
I have the button and have 66. utg calls, I call and so does both small and big blind. Flop is 223 rainbow. SB checks, BB checks and third guy (2nd place chip holder) goes all in. He has done this to several people already and I have him pegged for K or Q with mid size kicker so I accept and go all in. SB and BB both fold. We expose our cards and he has K8 off suite. Turn is a 5 and then the river is a K. I drown in the river. I had been doing well by following all the advice and either betting, raising or folding but not calling. I think I should have done a large raise Pre-flop. It was a lot of fun though. comments welcome /forums/images/icons/blush.gif /forums/images/icons/grin.gif I've also posted this in No limit forum.

[nicky g]

I certainly would have raised preflop. Well done on your 4th place, did you get anything for it?

[Argyll]

Hi Nicky,

I agree on the pre-flop and no, there was only one prize, $2,000.00 and a $10,000.00 buy in at the WSOP. /forums/images/icons/club.gif