Gasp! Percy actually overplayed his hand!

[grb137]

Villan is percy6. I think he played it pretty poorly, considering what his started hand was -- I thought his raise on 5th was putrid. I'm posting cuz I usually don't see such silliness from him.

I considered raising 6th, but his K made me decided against it.

Thoughts?

7 Card Stud High ($20/$40), Ante $2, Bring-In $5 (hand converter (http://www.geocities.com/greenage22/7StudConverter.hta.txt))

3rd Street - (0.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/club.gif___completes___calls
Hero: 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif___brings-in___folds
Seat 6: xx xx J/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds

4th Street - (4.85 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif___calls
Hero: 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif___bets

5th Street - (3.43 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif___raises
Hero: 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___bets___calls

6th Street - (7.43 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets
Hero: 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif___calls

River - (9.43 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif xx___checks___calls
Hero: 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif___bets

Total pot: 11.43 BB

Results:
Main Pot: $454 | Rake: $3

Seat 2: [ 7d Th 7c 4s Ts Kh 5h ] [ two pairs, tens and sevens -- Kh,Th,Ts,7d,7c ]

Hero: [ 8d Qc 8c Tc 9d Qs 7s ] [ two pairs, queens and eights -- Qc,Qs,Tc,8d,8c ]

[BeerMoney]

He's not doing to bad if this is his worst hand..

[Roland]

I don’t like his call on 3rd. The ten MIGHT be an over card - or it might just get him in trouble if he hits it, like it did here.
I don’t think the raise on 5th is bad. I’d probably wait till 6th, but that’s just me.
Lastly, I think you should raise on 6th. The only way that king helped him is if he started with buried kings; that won’t be the case very often.

[grb137]

[ QUOTE ]
The only way that king helped him is if he started with buried kings; that won’t be the case very often.

[/ QUOTE ]

or 7-K-7, which is a very possible starting hand for him

[BTirish]

Maybe I'm not following... what's so putrid about the raise on 5th? He called your 3rd street raise with an overcard to your likely pair of 8's. He would release the hand if you knew that you had the quality Qc kicker... But when he caught his 10, he raised with the best hand--you were drawing to 8 outs with 2 cards to come. According to twodimes, he's a 58% favorite at this point.

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only way that king helped him is if he started with buried kings; that won’t be the case very often.

[/ QUOTE ]

or 7-K-7, which is a very possible starting hand for him

[/ QUOTE ]


I don’t think he would raise you with that on 5th. Even if he would, I still think it’s a raise.

[anatta]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only way that king helped him is if he started with buried kings; that won’t be the case very often.

[/ QUOTE ]

or 7-K-7, which is a very possible starting hand for him

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe 7-K-7 is a possible starting hand, but his raise on 5th seems to suggest he has more than a pair of 7's, right?

[blumpkin22]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only way that king helped him is if he started with buried kings; that won’t be the case very often.

[/ QUOTE ]


Maybe 7-K-7 is a possible starting hand, but his raise on 5th seems to suggest he has more than a pair of 7's, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
It also possible Percy thinks that Hero was restealing light on 3rd because it is possible that Percy was stealing initially. Depends on what Percy thinks of your play. But if this were the case, he might raise 5th with only one pair, hoping that Hero will fold with just overcards.

[grb137]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only way that king helped him is if he started with buried kings; that won’t be the case very often.

[/ QUOTE ]

or 7-K-7, which is a very possible starting hand for him

[/ QUOTE ]


I don’t think he would raise you with that on 5th. Even if he would, I still think it’s a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well maybe in theory, but I think even the best of us would have a hard time making this kind of raise. Whenever someone decent raises me with a board that is not at all scary, my first thought is trips, and my second thought is a big pocket pair.

If you're telling me that you would have been able to put him on 10s up based on his raise of 5th, then #1 I bow to your mad skillz and #2 why aren't you on the 20/40 tables 24/7 making crazy cash?

Anyway, in theory a raise would have been good, but even if I had, I'm very confident he wouldn't have called the river without having improved, so I don't believe I missed a bet.

[grb137]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only way that king helped him is if he started with buried kings; that won’t be the case very often.

[/ QUOTE ]

or 7-K-7, which is a very possible starting hand for him

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe 7-K-7 is a possible starting hand, but his raise on 5th seems to suggest he has more than a pair of 7's, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, exactly, which is why I wasn't anxious to throw in a raise with 2 pair.

[grb137]

[ QUOTE ]

It also possible Percy thinks that Hero was restealing light on 3rd because it is possible that Percy was stealing initially. Depends on what Percy thinks of your play. But if this were the case, he might raise 5th with only one pair, hoping that Hero will fold with just overcards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well he'd be a fool to think so. I don't think I've ever made a play like that with the 20/40 structure the way it is. If he was thinking that, then he was waaaaaay off.

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only way that king helped him is if he started with buried kings; that won’t be the case very often.

[/ QUOTE ]

or 7-K-7, which is a very possible starting hand for him

[/ QUOTE ]


I don’t think he would raise you with that on 5th. Even if he would, I still think it’s a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well maybe in theory, but I think even the best of us would have a hard time making this kind of raise. Whenever someone decent raises me with a board that is not at all scary, my first thought is trips, and my second thought is a big pocket pair.

If you're telling me that you would have been able to put him on 10s up based on his raise of 5th, then #1 I bow to your mad skillz and #2 why aren't you on the 20/40 tables 24/7 making crazy cash?

Anyway, in theory a raise would have been good, but even if I had, I'm very confident he wouldn't have called the river without having improved, so I don't believe I missed a bet.

[/ QUOTE ]


Calm down. I never said I could put him on tens up; all I said was that it looked like a raise to me.
Actually though, your right. It’s a call.

[grb137]

[ QUOTE ]


Calm down.

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes you think I'm not calm?

[BeerMoney]

[ QUOTE ]

If you're telling me that you would have been able to put him on 10s up based on his raise of 5th, then #1 I bow to your mad skillz and #2 why aren't you on the 20/40 tables 24/7 making crazy cash?



[/ QUOTE ]

I think we all know Roland is a solid player and poster. No need to take shots like this. Also, just because 20/40 is the biggest game doesn't make it the most profitable.

* What do we think of Percy's river check?

** I'd love to see a 15/30 with the same structure as the 3/6 tables.

[blumpkin22]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

It also possible Percy thinks that Hero was restealing light on 3rd because it is possible that Percy was stealing initially. Depends on what Percy thinks of your play. But if this were the case, he might raise 5th with only one pair, hoping that Hero will fold with just overcards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well he'd be a fool to think so. I don't think I've ever made a play like that with the 20/40 structure the way it is. If he was thinking that, then he was waaaaaay off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, given the tight 20/40 structure. In another game it be more likely, although still not very.

[grb137]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If you're telling me that you would have been able to put him on 10s up based on his raise of 5th, then #1 I bow to your mad skillz and #2 why aren't you on the 20/40 tables 24/7 making crazy cash?



[/ QUOTE ]

I think we all know Roland is a solid player and poster. No need to take shots like this. Also, just because 20/40 is the biggest game doesn't make it the most profitable.


[/ QUOTE ]

What shot? What I wrote wasn't meant to be a shot, it was serious. I respect Roland's opinion as a regular 2+2er, and if he's capable of making these kinds of reads, I truly think he ought to be playing at the highest possible limits to maximize his $$$, especially when the consensus is that the other stud tables have "dried up."

I meant no offense.

[blumpkin22]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If you're telling me that you would have been able to put him on 10s up based on his raise of 5th, then #1 I bow to your mad skillz and #2 why aren't you on the 20/40 tables 24/7 making crazy cash?



[/ QUOTE ]

I think we all know Roland is a solid player and poster. No need to take shots like this. Also, just because 20/40 is the biggest game doesn't make it the most profitable.


[/ QUOTE ]

What shot? What I wrote wasn't meant to be a shot, it was serious. I respect Roland's opinion as a regular 2+2er, and if he's capable of making these kinds of reads, I truly think he ought to be playing at the highest possible limits to maximize his $$$, especially when the consensus is that the other stud tables have "dried up."

I meant no offense.

[/ QUOTE ]

The best players cannot always play at the highest Party limits due to bankroll constraints independent of poker.

[BTirish]

[ QUOTE ]
The best players cannot always play at the highest Party limits due to bankroll constraints independent of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not one of the best players, even though I do think I'm good enough to play higher than $1/$2. But I manage to pay my rent playing $1/$2 with very little risk. My style fits the ante structure of Stars $1/$2, and I'm not willing to risk enough to play Party's $3/$6 yet. If I weren't a graduate student getting married in 9 months, I'd probably gamble it up and play $5/$10 with a small bankroll.

[blumpkin22]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The best players cannot always play at the highest Party limits due to bankroll constraints independent of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not one of the best players, even though I do think I'm good enough to play higher than $1/$2.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but I was referring to Roland. I haven't seen you play, but I'm sure you are a solid player too.

[BTirish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The best players cannot always play at the highest Party limits due to bankroll constraints independent of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not one of the best players, even though I do think I'm good enough to play higher than $1/$2.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but I was referring to Roland. I haven't seen you play, but I'm sure you are a solid player too.

[/ QUOTE ]

None taken. I didn't figure you were referring to me at all. I was just backing up your claim that stakes played don't necessarily equate to quality of play.

[MRBAA]

I think Percy's raise is fine here. He has tens up, your up cards are 8T9. He probably thinks you started with a pair, not a str8 draw (I would) and puts you on split 8s or a pocket pair above 7s. Either way, he's winning. He's crushing split 8s with a lower kicker, although he should suspect from your reraise on 3rd that you might have either a big pair in the hole or a big kicker to go with your eights. Even when that's the case (as it was) he's still ahead. I think his completion is fairly standard on third, given his position. But when he gets reraised and it's head up he could just fold. Or he could just check/call fourth and fold fifth unimproved. Perhaps that was his battle plan, but he improved just enough to make a raise the better play. This hand is a good example of how getting a little out of line early can cost you late in stud.

[Andy B]

I don't think that percy's raise on fifth is atrocious. I probably would have raised on sixth with his hand myself, had you not caught a fourth straight card.

[SA125]

I don't think it's overplayed at all. He figured you weren't raising there with straight cards. Then it's a matter of whether the Q hit you or not, which is less likely than A or K, so he figures he's ahead.

I think his play was aggressive and fine, especially when he could play it the same way if he was rolled up.