Help with first hour fo PStars $10 re-buy

[McMelchior]

Lloyd started this nice new thread for newbies, and since my results in the PStars $10 re-buy in no way diverge from a newbie's I thought it would be appropriate to post there ... well, to get to the short of it: Lloyd suggested I should make this a separate thread in the hope of getting replies from some of our re-buy experts. Here it is - out of major frustration:

What is a good strategy for the first hour of the PStars $10 re-buy?

I believe this tournament is my biggest money-loser. I usually burn through 2 to 4 double rebuys and end the re-buy period with 5,000 in chips (the minimum) anyway. Generally at that point I'm halfway on tilt and dont last long, even if I get lucky once or twice.

Suggestions from those of you who seem to be experts in using the re-buy period to accumulate mountains of chips highly appreciated - thank you!

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[bugstud]

I suggest winning more coinflips

[mts]

during the rebuy period you determine your level of investment. i think this can be proportional to your skill level.

Dont think you need to have a huge stack at the break to compete. there are still a lot of bad players all the way through this thing.

[Jason Strasser]

First get a feel for your table dynamics. They really can change a lot so sometimes you'll just play fairly typical poker the first hour and other times you'll be overcalling two all ins in front of you with 68s.

I tend to pick out the people who love to gambool and just stick it in with any respectable hand versus them. I'll also sometimes open push with hand like AK AQ 77 etc because I've seen them call with all sorts of crap in the name of gambooling. Also if the table is aggro I almost always limp in my big hands with the intentions of making a big pot preflop when someone else raises.

But again, you are asking a very broad question. It's like "how do I play level 1 of a tournament?". You just gotta adjust to your table conditions and try to make your good decisions. Anyone who reply's to this thread with something like "Go crazy then double up to xxx$ and then play super tight" is going to pass on some amazing chances to get a big stack because especially towards the end of the rebuy people get very desperate who dont have a stack. Big, unflexible rules like 'play tight under xxx circumstances' or whatever are not meant for the situational game of poker.

-Jason

[Jurollo]

Strassa touched on the biggest issue for rebuy strategy. Table dynamics. This is the very issue that precludes someone from giving perfect rebuy strategy. Sometimes you will find yourself in the middle of a LAGfest where putting it in with good hands preflop will help you build your stack but you may have to rebuy several times to do so. Other times you find yuorself on the other end of the spectrum and have to considerably tighten up and wait for your spots. Perhaps at a tight table you decide to induce some action, I have done this many times, if you are comfortable with rebuying a few times, push all in with basically any 2 and you will generally get blinds the first 3-4 times till someone makes a stand, then rebuy again and do the same, this generally loosens everyone up as they see you playing crap and will lower there standards, this way you get paid off big with bigger hands.
~Justin

[Chief911]

Hey,

I've had some success in the rebuy, so I'll give you my two cents.

I have in the past, and still continue to play two different styles. Oddly, one seems to be more effective than the other.

Option 1 is to lag it up, load up your table, spend $200, and hopefully leave the rebuy period with a big stack (12k+).

Option 2 is to play it like a regular tournament. Except take small edges early and push them hard. IE, calling a 150BB all in with AQ, and any pocket pair (especially 99+). Once you double up once, play considerably tighter and protect your stack a bit more. If you bust then rebuy, and continue to play tight.

I'd suggest (If you can afford it) try both of those. See which is most successful for you.

Here's some things that I personally have found are important to me:

1. I've had the most success in the rebuy when I end the rebuy/add-on period with 5k. I think of my 6 wins, 5 have been this scenario.
2. Of the countless times I've ended the rebuy with over 20k, I've won once. Most the time I'm gone by the end of the third hour.
3. Are you able to change mindsets and gears in 5 minutes from the rebuy period to the post-rebuy period? Otherwise, you'll lag that big stack away quickly.
4. Image. Most people in this tournament just dont pay attention. You haven't played a hand in an hour, and raise 4xBB UTG with KK, watch and profit while MP goes allin for 150BB with TT, and shovels his chips to you.
5. Survival. This is a tourney of survival. Maybe not more than any others. But I think so, because of the deep stacks. Stick around by playing TIGHT aggressive poker, and then be ready to change gears at about the 3 hour mark.
6. My VP$IP has been around 13% the times I've FT'd it.

I'm convinced there is no "right" way to play these, as you will see very successful winning players play the rebuy period in many different ways. Try em all, and see what works for you. But the rebuy period is just the qualifying lap.

Hope this helps.

nick

[benneh]

"6. My VP$IP has been around 13% the times I've FT'd it. "

From the first break until the final table, right?

[Chief911]

Total.

Nick

[McMelchior]

Gentlemen,
I appriciate your imput - thank you.

I'm trying to gather my thoughts from reading the replies:

- It's probably a good idea (isn't it always, BTW?) deliberately to choose a game plan (stingy, splurgy) - but even better to adjust it to table dynamics

- The level of play in these tournaments is obviously surprisingly low. Even with a minimum stack after add-on it's not un-reasonable to hope to build a decent stack by playing straight poker.

- Justin's suggestion about "opening" up a tight table. My experience is I don't even need to go all-in to do it - just throw in a few 6 - 10 x BB raises from EP and show down cheese every time. On the other hand it's possible to throw away two or three double re-buys trying to "open up" a table just to see it tighten up again at level 4 - or even sicker, being moved to a new, tight table.

- It probably doesn't make much sense for me spending a fortune trying to build a big stack in the re-buy period if I'm not an effective big stack player. I'm not talking about the obvious advantage of having a big stack, but about uncompromising successful bullying.

Reading through this I realize it sounds like I'm favoring the "tight" strategy, but that's not really where I wanted to go - I genuinely envious of the LAGs with the multi-5-digit stack at the break!

And there's little doubt in my mind that if I had a "patent" solution for how to get there (or at least a pretty good idea how) I wouldn't mind spending the necessary number of rebuys.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[Lloyd]

Is there any logic behind PS closing of tables?

[DireWolf]

don't think so, which sucks

[benneh]

[ QUOTE ]
Total.

Nick

[/ QUOTE ]

How much do you steal in the later periods? Or do you have such a huge stack usually that you don't even bother stealing and instead wait for huge hands?

you have me thinking im stealing too much.

[JustPlayingSmart]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any logic behind PS closing of tables?

[/ QUOTE ]

Stars closes tables when it has a player bust that makes the number of players left a multiple of 9. For example, the table that has the 901st player out would be closed. It's easy to see when you are looking at a tourney down to 28, 19, 10.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
What is a good strategy for the first hour of the PStars $10 re-buy?

I believe this tournament is my biggest money-loser. I usually burn through 2 to 4 double rebuys and end the re-buy period with 5,000 in chips (the minimum) anyway. Generally at that point I'm halfway on tilt and dont last long, even if I get lucky once or twice.

Suggestions from those of you who seem to be experts in using the re-buy period to accumulate mountains of chips highly appreciated - thank you

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems like you are playing it the way a lot of people do. Gamble wildly in the rebuy period. Gamble wildly after the rebuy period. Why are you burning through so many double rebuys and not picking up chips? Since a lot of people are playing badly, you must be playing worse. Just play solid poker.

These rebuys give weak players the illusion they can be successful by building a big stack through gambling. While I prefer rebuys, you may get better value playing freezeouts.

The $10 rebuy on Stars is an incredibly soft tournament, because there are so many people playing the way you appear to play based on your post.

I used to play it almost every night, but don't play it much now. For a long time my biggest cash was $3K for 3rd place in that, 100 times my $31 investment.

About half the time it costs me $30, but sometimes $40-80. Sometimes I wind up the rebuy period with just 5000 chips like you and sometimes a big stack.

I play solid in the rebuy period, but see a lot of flops with speculative hands. I will call a raise with those, particularly in a family pot. Early on I will limp from late position with hands like 98o or K2s, hoping to get paid off on a big flop. I try to get allin preflop with AA-JJ and AK. I try to get as much as possible in preflop with big pairs, partly to reduce implied odds or people with smaller pairs or whatever, since I will have to call allin after the flop. I don't try to build a pot with AQ-AK, particularly out of position, but I don't mind going allin with them and may play for a limpraise allin. I try to play big hands, and frequently fold top pair on the flop, because I will get too much action and it is hard to tell if I am ahead.

After the rebuy period, the action is still fairly wild and very aggressive. I play very tight, but will limp in late position with speculative hands. I will put in big raises with big hands preflop, since they will be called. If I have a big hand after the flop, I usually check/call, as most people will go allin in stages whether they have anything or not. I will also check/call with a strong hand I am not sure is the best.

As the bubble period approaches and afterwords, the play usually gets tighter. I play more aggressively and put in steal raises, particularly with a big stack. If the play stays loose/aggressive than I stay tight. There will be some LAGs who built there stacks through gambling and aggression. There will also be real tight players who took advantage of the loose fish. You need to play the players and the table.