Free card play

[kapw7]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP is very LAG.

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, MP calls.

I raise since I can be ahead MP - to eliminate BB - possibly take the pot right there - get a free card

Turn: (5 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks.

River plan?

[LoaferGee12]

This play really makes no sense to me. First off, is he LAG enough that he's really betting anything on this flop? If so, I don't mind the check-raise but it's because you're ahead not for a free card (you're out of position, keep in mind). For this reason, you should follow the raise up with a turn bet.
On the other side of the coin, if the LAG is not LAG enough to be betting any flop here when checked to, you need to just lead out on the flop.

[irishpint]

i agree, this play is asinine. you dont have AK, for one. AJ is not quite the same. But more than that you dont have any BDFD and the worst ever BDSD. AND YOU ARE OUT OF POSITION!!

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
This play really makes no sense to me. First off, is he LAG enough that he's really betting anything on this flop? If so, I don't mind the check-raise but it's because you're ahead

[/ QUOTE ]

quote OP: I raise since I can be ahead MP - to eliminate BB - possibly take the pot right there - get a free card

Betting the turn is OK as well
By checking I get the free info that he has more likely nothing and I am drawing to my overcards for free

I'd c/c the river. We read MP as very lag (Is he loose enough to lead out the flop with 2 cards?), so a bet might be a steal attempt.

There's a good chance we're ahead, but I wouldn't bet because I don't want to see a c/r we couldn't fold from a LAG capable of using it as a bluff.

[LoaferGee12]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This play really makes no sense to me. First off, is he LAG enough that he's really betting anything on this flop? If so, I don't mind the check-raise but it's because you're ahead

[/ QUOTE ]

quote OP: I raise since I can be ahead MP - to eliminate BB - possibly take the pot right there - get a free card

Betting the turn is OK as well
By checking I get the free info that he has more likely nothing and I am drawing to my overcards for free

[/ QUOTE ]

But if you're ahead, you're not drawing at all. He's drawing and thus you're giving HIM a free card.

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This play really makes no sense to me. First off, is he LAG enough that he's really betting anything on this flop? If so, I don't mind the check-raise but it's because you're ahead

[/ QUOTE ]

quote OP: I raise since I can be ahead MP - to eliminate BB - possibly take the pot right there - get a free card

Betting the turn is OK as well
By checking I get the free info that he has more likely nothing and I am drawing to my overcards for free

[/ QUOTE ]

But if you're ahead, you're not drawing at all. He's drawing and thus you're giving HIM a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. That's why betting the turn is also OK.
By checking I go for a cheap SD but risking giving him a free card (small risk) or getting bluff bet (bigger risk) as I planned to fold to a turn bet most of the times.

[Shillx]

C'mon man bet the turn if you are going to do this. Good game giving him a free card... /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Brad

Holy crap folding to a turn bet is even worse. What are you thinking here? /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
Correct. That's why betting the turn is also OK.
By checking I go for a cheap SD but risking giving him a free card (small risk) or getting bluff bet (bigger risk) as I planned to fold to a turn bet most of the times.


[/ QUOTE ]

um you need to bet the turn if you do this flop line

c/r the flop folding to a bet on the turn is even more /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Shillx]

If the guy is a super LAG and you are scared about getting bluff raised or something then just check and call all the way down. The BB will have a hard time calling on a T55r board with a worse hand then you, so you don't really have to worry about knocking him out.

Check/calling down with AK-AJ type hands against habitual bluffers (or even something like Ax on a Ayz board) is a good way to extract $$$ from them.

Brad

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
C'mon man bet the turn if you are going to do this. Good game giving him a free card... /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Brad

Holy crap folding to a turn bet is even worse. What are you thinking here? /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

As i said betting the turn is also OK. But not THAT better (or any better).

Folding to the bet (most of the times): He called my C-R and risks another one (C-R) by betting. If I don't fold then I pay 2BB to win 7BB. Not attractive odds.

If you intend to check-call then it's much better to bet.

I liked the /images/graemlins/confused.gif smiley
This is how I want my opponents to be when playing against me

[Shillx]

This doesn't make any sense. Why is it better to bet if the villian will always fold a worse hand but will always bet when checked too. In a small pot you like him to just throw his money away.

AJ on a T557 board is a damn good hand. Throwing it away when a LAG bets (when checked too) is a big mistake. You have the best hand here WELL over 50% of the time.

Brad

[kapw7]

Posting the rest of the hand for completion
Please don't accuse me of trying to prove I was right (this was not the point for me anyway)

River: (5 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: 5 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Jd Ah (one pair, fives).
MP has 9c 4c (one pair, fives).
Outcome: Hero wins 5 BB. </font>

[irishpint]

why make a post if you cant stand to hear it was terrible?

[kapw7]

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why make a post if you cant stand to hear it was terrible?

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?
How did you come to that idiotic conclusion?
I dont care for a reply
You just made it to my ignore list.
First and hopefully the last one

[GTSamIAm]

Since I raised preflop, I'm definitely betting this flop. A paired board means you're likely still ahead. Also, you can't get a "free card" out of position. By definition, you must have position.

But I'm not sure you are right. If you bet the turn, you might have won the same $ right then. If MP doesn't fold, you stand to win more with a check/call river strategy. Isn't that better than what you did?