what's up with propoker and sunrise?

[crazy canuck]

The recent discussion in the etics thread made me remember these other popular sites. Anyhow, anybody knows how they are doing?

[Zwiggelte]

A couple of weeks ago i was in Vegas. I saw that propoker did a lot of advertisments for their poker site. In local newpapers and cardplayer. i played today a couple of hands "play money" at propoker and i watched some real money tables...There is nothing changed in a year.. Still bots and still no calls when you have the nuts.. But they have to make some money i suppose, because the advertisements are very expensive. And there are still people buying those great promotions (deposit 100$ get 102$ free)..

[rusty JEDI]

Mike Haven is probably still playing both these sites. He is the man for this question.

[crazy canuck]

Mike has been kind of quiet about this lately. Maybe he's been captured and paid off by the dark side.

[Mike Haven]

propoker i have kind of given up on - they gave me some free money bonuses to play there but i lost them, and obviously i'm not going to put any of my own money in

i think it was dux who asked was it ever proven that they are not legitimate - that sort of put a conclusion on it for me, because i realised it never could be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt - whatever theories i or anyone else came up with about what goes on there would probably always only be theories and someone somewhere would still keep playing so propoker would always be winning

as for sunrise - yes, i still play there often for an hour or two and i do ok but not well - but in fact, somewhat perversely, i enjoy playing there - it gives me a great kick when i do do well because i feel it is a learning experience for me - the style of play there is like nothing else that i've ever come across - rather than the feeling that you get when you play on a normal site, where you feel it is you against a number of individual players, you feel it is you against a team of players all aiming their collective guns specifically at your head - their tactics are often the school of fish playing anything approach - one of them will often click - so if you don't have at least top pair you are usually in trouble when you get a turn bet called

in fact last night i lost about $20 because i didn't adjust for the game that was being played - usually it is ultra-passive, but last night sometimes it was fairly aggressive and i didn't realise for too long a time why that was the case

it turned out there were (so they said later) two new real players who had just joined and they beat my normal sunrise-style into a cocked hat - ah well - that will teach me to change gears quicker, i hope

for your amusement, here are a few of my favourite hands from last night:

Game #5145945 -- 4/20/2003 2:43:35 PM (CST)
Tengo posts the small blind ($0.25)
Mike Haven posts the big blind ($0.5)
Dealt to Mike Haven [6c, Qd]
lookatme folds
vm calls ($0.5)
cscgowda folds
Tengo raises ($0.75)
Mike Haven folds
vm calls ($0.5)
Dealing community cards: [Jc, 2h, 8h]
Tengo bets ($0.5)
vm calls ($0.5)
Dealing community cards: [Jc, 2h, 8h] [Ac]
Tengo checks
vm checks
Dealing community cards: [Jc, 2h, 8h, Ac] [3h]
Tengo bets ($1)
vm calls ($1)
Tengo shows [9s, Kh]
vm shows [4h, 3s]
vm wins $5.25 with a pair, threes

Game #5146194 -- 4/20/2003 2:55:13 PM (CST)
cscgowda posts the small blind ($0.25)
lookatme posts the big blind ($0.5)
Dealt to Mike Haven [9h, 6d]
vm calls ($0.5)
Mike Haven folds
cscgowda calls ($0.25)
lookatme checks
Dealing community cards: [As, 2s, Kh]
cscgowda checks
lookatme checks
vm checks
Dealing community cards: [As, 2s, Kh] [6c]
cscgowda checks
lookatme checks
vm checks
Dealing community cards: [As, 2s, Kh, 6c] [5d]
cscgowda checks
lookatme checks
vm checks
cscgowda shows [6h, 3s]
lookatme shows [5s, 2h]
vm shows [3d, 4c]
vm wins $1.5 with straight, two to six

Game #5146920 -- 4/20/2003 3:26:30 PM (CST)
Mike Haven posts the small blind ($0.25)
vm posts the big blind ($0.5)
Dealt to Mike Haven [Qd, 6d]
gnimiy calls ($0.5)
pid42 calls ($0.5)
mbooy calls ($0.5)
lookatme calls ($0.5)
Mike Haven calls ($0.25)
vm checks
Dealing community cards: [Kc, Js, 5h]
Mike Haven checks
vm checks
gnimiy bets ($0.5)
pid42 calls ($0.5)
mbooy raises ($1)
lookatme calls ($1)
Mike Haven folds
vm folds
gnimiy calls ($0.5)
pid42 calls ($0.5)
Dealing community cards: [Kc, Js, 5h] [8c]
gnimiy checks
pid42 checks
mbooy bets ($1)
lookatme calls ($1)
gnimiy calls ($1)
pid42 folds
Dealing community cards: [Kc, Js, 5h, 8c] [Ah]
gnimiy checks
mbooy checks
lookatme checks
gnimiy shows [7h, 7s]
mbooy shows [Kh, Ks]
lookatme mucks
mbooy wins $9.5 with three of a kind, kings


Game #5147679 -- 4/20/2003 4:03:49 PM (CST)
Mike Haven posts the small blind ($0.25)
pid42 posts the big blind ($0.5)
Dealt to Mike Haven [9h, Jh]
hliang1961 folds
mbooy calls ($0.5)
irikan folds
KANOJSOM calls ($0.5)
Mike Haven calls ($0.25)
pid42 checks
Dealing community cards: [7c, Qh, 6h]
Mike Haven bets ($0.5)
pid42 calls ($0.5)
mbooy folds
KANOJSOM calls ($0.5)
Dealing community cards: [7c, Qh, 6h] [Kc]
Mike Haven checks
pid42 checks
KANOJSOM checks
Dealing community cards: [7c, Qh, 6h, Kc] [7s]
Mike Haven checks
pid42 checks
KANOJSOM checks
Mike Haven shows [9h, Jh]
pid42 shows [3c, 7h]
KANOJSOM mucks
pid42 wins $3.5 with three of a kind, sevens

Game #5148159 -- 4/20/2003 4:23:11 PM (CST)
mbooy posts the small blind ($0.25)
KANOJSOM posts the big blind ($0.5)
hliang1961 posts ($0.5)
Dealt to Mike Haven [9d, Kh]
Mike Haven folds
coco_suga11 folds
pid42 folds
hliang1961 checks
wamtron calls ($0.5)
mbooy calls ($0.25)
KANOJSOM checks
Dealing community cards: [Ks, As, 5c]
mbooy bets ($0.5)
KANOJSOM folds
hliang1961 folds
wamtron calls ($0.5)
Dealing community cards: [Ks, As, 5c] [8d]
mbooy bets ($1)
wamtron calls ($1)
Dealing community cards: [Ks, As, 5c, 8d] [6s]
mbooy checks
wamtron bets ($1)
mbooy calls ($1)
wamtron shows [4s, 7d]
mbooy mucks
wamtron wins $6.75

Game #5149493 -- 4/20/2003 5:25:32 PM (CST)
wamtron posts the small blind ($0.25)
freehits posts the big blind ($0.5)
Dealt to Mike Haven [4h, 7s]
deepakyadav folds
Mike Haven folds
coco_suga11 calls ($0.5)
gossun calls ($0.5)
cscgowda folds
wamtron folds
freehits checks
Dealing community cards: [Jh, 4c, 7h]
freehits bets ($0.5)
coco_suga11 calls ($0.5)
gossun folds
Dealing community cards: [Jh, 4c, 7h] [Jc]
freehits checks
coco_suga11 checks
Dealing community cards: [Jh, 4c, 7h, Jc] [4d]
freehits checks
coco_suga11 bets ($1)
freehits calls ($1)
coco_suga11 shows [Js, Kd]
freehits mucks
coco_suga11 wins $4.75

[crazy canuck]

Thanks Mike...I'm glad they didn't silence you. So do you see new players (non-house) coming in? Do you think sunrise is making enough to pay their shills/programmers and make a profit?

[Mike Haven]

thanks cc

in fact, in an odd way, i respect sunrise's support staff in one particular area

i don't hold my punches when i'm chatting, and support is watching, (i can just say "support, what do you think of such and such?" and they will respond), yet they have removed any censorship of my words

here's a bit of our chat last night:

Mike Haven: why would you pick sunrise to play at?
mbooy: first time playing...just the first one I found
Mike Haven: lol
Mike Haven: yeah - it is such a big player in the game how could you miss it?
Mike Haven: mbooy: where did you see the ad for it?
mbooy: no, a friend told me about it
Mike Haven: lol
Mike Haven: who was that?
mbooy: what so funny?
mbooy: Trent
mbooy: you probably don't know him
Mike Haven: does he like it?
mbooy: no
Mike Haven: lol
Mike Haven: so you came here?
mbooy: we are looking for another place
Mike Haven: try partypoker or pokerstars - they're two of the best

if i had said that at paradise i would probably be on the street today

but in answer to your question - although there are new names playing all the time, they are still exactly the same type as the old sunrise players we grew to love - they never say a single word to each other - they take and change drinks from the bar constantly - they all play almost exactly similarly - suddenly, out of the blue, having not made a single raise or reraise all evening, they go into raising frenzies in the most ridiculous circumstances - like this:

Game #4920004 -- 4/13/2003 7:29:59 AM (CST)
pinkroses posts the small blind ($0.25)
cooljobi posts the big blind ($0.5)
Dealt to Mike Haven [9d, Js]
jothigoutham folds
holodil calls ($0.5)
dwightmartyn folds
Mike Haven folds
facaidemao1 folds
helenasz1 calls ($0.5)
pinkroses calls ($0.25)
cooljobi checks
Dealing community cards: [Td, Jc, Qh]
pinkroses checks
cooljobi checks
holodil checks
helenasz1 checks
Dealing community cards: [Td, Jc, Qh] [9c]
pinkroses checks
cooljobi checks
holodil checks
helenasz1 checks
Dealing community cards: [Td, Jc, Qh, 9c] [8d]
pinkroses checks
cooljobi folds (leave table)
holodil bets ($1)
helenasz1 raises ($2)
pinkroses raises ($3)
holodil calls ($2)
helenasz1 raises ($2)
pinkroses calls ($1)
holodil calls ($1)
helenasz1 shows [7c, Tc]
pinkroses shows [Qc, 3c]
holodil shows [3d, Jd]
helenasz1 wins $4.5 with straight, eight to queen
pinkroses wins $4.5 with straight, eight to queen
holodil wins $4.5 with straight, eight to queen

Game #5110404 -- 4/19/2003 10:31:56 AM (CST)
Mike Haven posts the small blind ($0.25)
Rook posts the big blind ($0.5)
Dealt to Mike Haven [8s, Jh]
gun_tp00 folds
KANOJSOM folds
jennyan calls ($0.5)
vm calls ($0.5)
schrek folds
Mike Haven calls ($0.25)
Rook checks
Dealing community cards: [9s, 9h, Qs]
Mike Haven checks
Rook checks
jennyan bets ($0.5)
vm calls ($0.5)
Mike Haven folds
Rook folds
Dealing community cards: [9s, 9h, Qs] [Td]
jennyan checks
vm checks
Dealing community cards: [9s, 9h, Qs, Td] [9d]
jennyan bets ($1)
vm raises ($2)
jennyan raises ($2)
vm raises ($2)
jennyan calls ($1)
vm shows [3s, 4c]
jennyan shows [6d, 5c]
jennyan wins $5.25 with three of a kind, nines
vm wins $5.25 with three of a kind, nines

weird, huh?

i just do not know if all these new names are real new players - but, i have to admit, my gut says they are not

[Inthacup]

Wow. This is entertaining stuff Mike, even despite having to dredge through hand histories. My guess is they go into raising frenzies to get the avg. pot size up to make the games look juicy when they know they're going to split it. Keep it coming, this stuff is priceless.

[Mike Haven]

sorry about all the hh's but i can't stop myself collecting them at sunrise

played only for about half an hour tonight and good old passivity is back - managed to get back $15 of the $20

here's tonight's favourites:

Game #5179303 -- 4/21/2003 5:44:28 PM (CST)
Ross posts the small blind ($0.25)
GaMiRu posts the big blind ($0.5)
Dealt to Mike Haven [Qd, Kh]
Noland calls ($0.5)
gossun calls ($0.5)
Tengo calls ($0.5)
Mike Haven calls ($0.5)
dmac13 calls ($0.5)
pid42 folds
danizgod calls ($0.5)
cscgowda folds
Ross calls ($0.25)
GaMiRu checks
Dealing community cards: [4d, 7s, 5d]
Ross checks
GaMiRu checks
Noland checks
Tengo bets ($0.5)
Mike Haven folds
dmac13 calls ($0.5)
danizgod calls ($0.5)
Ross folds
GaMiRu calls ($0.5)
Noland calls ($0.5)
Dealing community cards: [4d, 7s, 5d] [Jh]
GaMiRu checks
Noland checks
Tengo bets ($1)
dmac13 calls ($1)
danizgod calls ($1)
GaMiRu calls ($1)
Noland calls ($1)
Dealing community cards: [4d, 7s, 5d, Jh] [8s]
GaMiRu checks
Noland checks
Tengo checks
dmac13 bets ($1)
danizgod calls ($1)
GaMiRu calls ($1)
Noland folds
Tengo folds
dmac13 shows [3s, 6d]
danizgod mucks
GaMiRu mucks
dmac13 wins $14

Game #5179327 -- 4/21/2003 5:46:10 PM (CST)
GaMiRu posts the small blind ($0.25)
Noland posts the big blind ($0.5)
Dealt to Mike Haven [3c, Jd]
Tengo folds
Mike Haven folds
dmac13 calls ($0.5)
pid42 folds
danizgod folds
cscgowda calls ($0.5)
Ross calls ($0.5)
GaMiRu calls ($0.25)
Noland checks
Dealing community cards: [Kc, 7c, Jc]
GaMiRu checks
Noland bets ($0.5)
dmac13 calls ($0.5)
cscgowda folds
Ross calls ($0.5)
GaMiRu folds
Dealing community cards: [Kc, 7c, Jc] [4c]
Noland checks
dmac13 checks
Ross checks
Dealing community cards: [Kc, 7c, Jc, 4c] [2h]
Noland checks
dmac13 bets ($1)
Ross folds
Noland calls ($1)
dmac13 shows [Tc, 5c]
Noland shows [Kd, Ac]
Noland wins $5.75 with a flush, ace high

Game #5179571 -- 4/21/2003 6:00:44 PM (CST)
pid42 posts the small blind ($0.25)
danizgod posts the big blind ($0.5)
cscgowda calls ($0.5)
Noland calls ($0.5)
Lancey calls ($0.5)
dmac13 calls ($0.5)
pid42 folds
danizgod checks
Dealing community cards: [2s, Qd, 5d]
danizgod checks
cscgowda checks
Noland checks
Lancey checks
dmac13 checks
Dealing community cards: [2s, Qd, 5d] [3d]
danizgod checks
cscgowda checks
Noland checks
Lancey checks
dmac13 checks
Mike Haven sits out (no connection)
Dealing community cards: [2s, Qd, 5d, 3d] [6s]
danizgod checks
cscgowda checks
Noland checks
Lancey checks
dmac13 bets ($1)
danizgod calls ($1)
cscgowda folds
Noland folds
Lancey folds
dmac13 shows [6d, 4s]
danizgod shows [4c, Ad]
dmac13 wins $2.38 with straight, two to six
danizgod wins $2.38 with straight, two to six

Game #5179777 -- 4/21/2003 6:11:21 PM (CST)
dmac13 posts the small blind ($0.25)
pid42 posts the big blind ($0.5)
Dealt to Mike Haven [Ah, Kc]
cscgowda folds
Ross calls ($0.5)
coco_suga11 calls ($0.5)
Noland calls ($0.5)
Lancey folds
Mike Haven raises ($1)
dmac13 calls ($0.75)
pid42 folds
Ross calls ($0.5)
coco_suga11 calls ($0.5)
Noland calls ($0.5)
Dealing community cards: [Jc, 5d, 2s]
dmac13 checks
Ross checks
coco_suga11 checks
Noland bets ($0.5)
Mike Haven calls ($0.5)
dmac13 folds
Ross calls ($0.5)
coco_suga11 calls ($0.5)
Dealing community cards: [Jc, 5d, 2s] [9d]
Ross checks
coco_suga11 checks
Noland checks
Mike Haven checks
Dealing community cards: [Jc, 5d, 2s, 9d] [Qh]
Ross checks
coco_suga11 checks
Noland checks
Mike Haven checks
Ross shows [6c, Js]
coco_suga11 mucks
Noland shows [Qd, Qs]
Mike Haven mucks
Noland wins $7.25 with three of a kind, queens