J9s, monster pot at monster table

[DavidC]

I'm a little frustrated because i"m sitting at a great table and I can't seem to win any pots. I would've taken a break an hour ago, but my seat is phenominal... oh well.

Anyways, best table of the week, best seat of the week, and I made two questionable decisions in this hand that immediately jump out at me:

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Table:
Going aroudn the table from my seat, headed to the left.

(42) 21/12/2.29 (taa)
(54) 19/13/1.2 (taa)
(59) 56/2/0.3 (lpp)
(12) 50/17/1.67 (unk)
(72) 10/10/7 (weak-tight: 22 wsd, alternatively cold-decked)
(38) 58/11/0.9 (lap)
(31) 48/23/2.55 (laa)
(24) 58/17/2 (laa?)
(34) 65/26/1.5 (laa)

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Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Hero folds

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Was the preflop call horrible, neutral, or awesome? Just curious. I figured that I was taking a chance on a LAA limp-reraising, but that a TAA would only three-bet iwth a premium hand, since he couldn't isolate. I don't have the button, which would be sweet, but I have good position to protect a hand.

On the flop, should I have raised this to protect clear up some jack outs, maybe? I don't know... THAT seems pretty crazy to me, but it could be correct.

--Dave.

[DrunkHamster]

Nah I think I like this every street. My gut tells me 3 betting the flop would be wrong - I doubt a you're going to win by hitting a J at this point, so you want as many customers in as possible. If you had the A high flush draw, I would seriously consider a 3 bet, as you could easily win by hitting an ace, but with a J I like a call. Turn is obvious - nothing else you could do. NH.

[hemstock]

I like calling this pf. You have huge implied odds.
On the flop, I think you have the equity to raise once again. There are 4 more players to decide if they are in or out. UTG+1 is definetly calling and you have 3 other players who are either calling 2cold or 3. Doesn't make much of a difference. Turn is fine.

[Fantam]

I dont mind your preflop coldcall. 2 limpers were already in the pot and likely to call the raise, and there was a reasonable chance that one or both of the blinds would call also. (Given your read of a lot of the table being quite loose.)

Despite the fact that you had 2 overcards on the flop, I prefer your flop call to a 3-bet. I would prefer to encourage overcalls as you did, to get value for your flush draw if you make it.

If the flop pot had been a lot bigger, then I would have preferred a re-raise.

[TripleH68]

With so many aggressive players I would have to call preflop neutral.

You pose an interesting question on the flop. With those kind of VP$IP numbers though I think smooth calling the flop is the correct play. Any outs must be discounted including yours. Even if I hold a gutshot w/ backdoor nut flush draw here I might be thinking about waiting for a better opportunity facing two back to me.

Turn fold is good given any pp is a likely holding for either player.

[KingOtter]

Even with an LAA raising right in front of you, if you get a pair of 9's on the flop can you keep going? I like to defend LAA raises with stronger hands than J9s, I guess is what I'm saying. I would call KQs here, for instance.

And I'd certainly limp with no pfr with J9s there.

KO

Grunch

I don't like the PF cold call. Not horrible, especially with so many chasers, but I don't know that when I call.

I don't like the turn fold either. You're flush draw has an excellant chance to be good if it hits. Unless I really think UTG+1 will raise (small sample, but his stats don't show too much aggro post flop) I'd find a call here.

Hmm...

Looks like I'm alone on calling the turn. While a pp or 3x beat your potential flush, given mp1's reads I think he'd raise with Ax. UTG1 is not as clear, but I think the pot is big enbough to call.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Nah I think I like this every street. My gut tells me 3 betting the flop would be wrong - I doubt a you're going to win by hitting a J at this point, so you want as many customers in as possible. If you had the A high flush draw, I would seriously consider a 3 bet, as you could easily win by hitting an ace, but with a J I like a call. Turn is obvious - nothing else you could do. NH.

[/ QUOTE ]

Going by random hands, there's a 46% chance that someone on this flop has a four, and that therefore if I hit a J I'm dead, and if I hit a flush they have a massive redraw.

Calling might be a good option here.

When trying to spike my jack, the following hands beat me:

33 (or whatever the board oddball card was)
44
aa, kk, qq, jj
jt,jq,jk
j9 chops

I have a redraw against jk: the ace could hit the river and if all the aces have folded already we chop.

Also, anyone who pairs on the turn, has already paired, or has a pair in their hand, has 4 outs to beat me, going from the turn to the river, if I hit my flush.

These notes don't actually advocate a specific play... I'm just throwing it out there...

[DrunkHamster]

I definitely do not call this turn. There's a strong chance MP3 has a decent pocket pair by the way he played it, so if you catch a J you could easily lose or split. The flush is basically worthless at this point, so I think folding is the only real choice.

[Fadook]

PF cold call is fine. When a player with a PFR of 26 raises, you can't give him too much credit for a good hand. You've got four players in front of you, and anyone who has already limped will call one more. In addition, the SB is loose, so there's a good chance he'll call. With such large implied odds, cold-calling is correct.